#1 American Killer, ETO???

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by lesofprimus, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    In all my researching and reading, I have never been able to find enough info to settle this debate for myself...

    I would assume that this is a very difficult statistic to track...

    I would also assume that the All-Time American Killer was Japanese, for obvious reasons, but I may be wrong in this assumption...

    Anyone got some stats sittin around that could shed some light on this???
     
  2. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    As an add on, Tetsuzo Iwamoto scored an impressive 202 aerial kills, and although this # seems to vary from different sources, the 202 seems to be the most common # posted...
     
  3. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

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    If you mean the top American Ace in the ETO, it would be Gabby Gabreski with 28 air-to-air kills. But I'm not really sure what you are asking for. Could you explain it better?


    By the way, Hiroyoshi Nishizawa is sometime acreditted with 202 victories though a total of 87 is more commonly accepted. Estimates for Iwamoto's final tally range from 250 to 66 with 80 seeming to be the most likely number.
     
  4. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Naw man i know Gabby... What im lookin 4 is the German who killed the most Americans...

    Ive seen the 87 before... But in books and online and articles and whatnot, i've seen the 202 more than any other #...
     
  5. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

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    Tracking that down would be pretty hard to do. The Germans on the Western front had relatively modest scores as compared to those on the Eastern front. I doubt anyone in the ETO shot down more Americans than Nishizawa or Iwamoto.
     
  6. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Yea LG... I have been looking for some solid stats on this for quite some time, and have virtually come up empty... ETO that is...

    Who was the leading German Ace in the ETO??? I'd have to look it up, but maybe one of u have it burned into ur memory chips...

    Maybe Erich has some insider info on the leading American Killer...
     
  7. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    he hasn't been around much lately.................
     
  8. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    I found a website that has a great stat listing that has been compiled from offical German films from the Eastern front, 1941-1944... Lists pilots name, date, location, aircraft downed and so forth... Zip file... Pretty interesting reading...

    If i can locate one of these for the Western front, we might have something here...

    If anyone is interested in this zip file, just say so and ill email u it...
     
  9. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    will have to dig deep as this is an interesting question..... as it could be the combination of bombers/fighters or one or the other ? let me know and we can go from there. Walter Dahl has in some references been known to be the top Mustang killer but although his claims are impressive further research has found that some of claims are in fact bogus and may have been credited to his wingman or other pilots under his leadership.............kinda crappy but it was not uncommon to have a leading personality/knights cross winner be built up for propaganda reasons. this my feelings for Herr Rudel and his tank busting feats. I surely do not beleive at all the 519 claimed in his favour.

    Erich ~
     
  10. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Yea Erich... These are some specific statistics that may not even exist for all i know...

    I read about Dahl before and agree with what ur saying about puffing up his totals...
    But Rudel??? I fully believe in as many sorties as the man had, that those #'s are definatly acievable... He fired over 5,000 37mm rounds, and when he was to be presented with another award, he would make it conditional that he should be allowed to continue flying sorties...

    Against even Hitlers requests...

    When he recieved his final Award, Hitler reluctantly agreed, but latter on that agreement was revolked, and Rudel was grounded... He went back to the front in direct disobiedience of the Greman Higher Authority...

    The man wanted to kill as many Russians as possible before the war ended...

    Tank by tank...
     
  11. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    I would assume one of these men can claim the title in the ETO...

    The PTO is alittle more difficult....

    Only 8 men shot down over 100 aircraft in the WTO...

    List
    Rank / First Name / Last Name / West / East / Total

    1
    Hptm. Hans-Joachim "Jochen" Marseille 158 0 158

    2
    Obstlt. Heinz "Pritzel" Bär 125 96 221
    3
    Obstlt. Kurt Bühligen 112 0 112

    4
    GenLt. Adolf "Dolfo" Galland 104 0 104

    5
    Maj. Joachim Müncheberg 102 33 135

    6
    Maj. Werner Schroer 102 12 114

    7
    Obstlt. Egon Mayer 102 0 102

    8
    Obst. Josef "Pips" Priller 101 0 101
    9
    Obst. Gustav Rödel 96 (97) 2 (1) 98

    10
    Hptm. Josef "Sepp" Wurmheller 93 9 102

    11
    Maj. Siegfried "Wurm" Schnell 90 3 93

    12
    Maj. Erich Rudorffer 86 138 224

    13
    Obst. Walter Oesau 73 44 117

    14
    Hptm. Ernst-Wilhelm Reinert 71 103 174

    15
    Hptm. Siegfried Lemke 70 0 70

    16
    Oblt. Adolf "Addi" Glunz 69 3 72

    17
    Maj. Werner "Vati" Mölders 68 33 101

    18
    Maj. Georg-Peter Eder 68 10 78

    19
    Maj. Hans "Assi" Hahn 66 42 108

    20
    Maj. Anton "Toni" Hackl 61 131 192

    21
    Maj. Gerhard Homuth 61 2 63

    22
    Oblt. Herbert Rollwage 60+ 11 85~

    23
    Maj. Gerhard Michalski 59 14 73

    24
    Lt. Hans-Arnold "Fiffi" Stahlschmidt 59 0 59

    25
    Maj. Klaus Mietusch 57 15 72

    26
    Obst. Herbert Ihlefeld 56 67 123

    27
    Oblt. Günther Seeger 56 0 56

    28
    Maj. Helmut Wick 56 0 56

    29
    Oblt. Karl-Heinz Bendert 55 0 55

    30
    Maj. Wilhelm-Ferdinand "Wutz" Galland 54 (55) 0 54 (55)
     
  12. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

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    Some of these men, Like Galland, scored most of their kills before America even entered the war. I'm not sure who all that rules out, but it probably rulls out several.
     
  13. GermansRGeniuses

    GermansRGeniuses Active Member

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    Surely this is supposed to be the WTO, right?
     
  14. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    ETO European Theatre operations...

    But yes.... For the Western European Theatre...
     
  15. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    Here is a list of American kills for the WTO...

    # / Name / US Kills / Total Kills / Bombers / Fighters

    1. Georg-Peter Eder / 55 / 78 / 36 / 9xP47, 7xP51, 3xP38
    2. Heinz "Pritzel" Bär / 52 / 221/ 21 / 11xP51, 10xP47, 4xP38, 3xB25, 1xA20
    3. Anton "Toni" Hackl / 47 / 192 / 34 / 6xP47, 3xP38, 2xP51, 3 "??"
    4. Kurt Bühligen / 46 / 112 / 24 / 13xP38, 9xP47
    5. Walther Dahl / 41 / 128 / 30 / 6xP51, 3xP38, 2xP47
    6. Konrad "Pitt" Bauer / 40 / 68 / 32 / 7xP51, 1xP38
    7. Egon Mayer / 40 / 102 / 26 / 8xP47
    8. Heinrich Bartels / 39 / 99 / 2 / 14xP38, 11xP51, 9xP47, 2xB25
    9. Siegfried Lemke/ 39 / 70 / 21 / 8xP47, 6xP51, 2xP38, 2xB26, 1xB25, 1xP39
    10. Werner Schroer / 36 / 114 / 26 / 8xP38, 1xP51, 1xP39


    Seems like Eder is the man....

    Looks to me like Bartels was one hell of a freakin great pilot.....
     

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  16. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    he also looks like one of my old teachers.......................
     
  17. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    What I have here is just a list of the top fighter pilots against USAAF aircraft. It does not include the total number of aircraft shot down just the number of USAAF aircraft shotdown. If you go to the website you can actually see it broken down by the number of each type of aircraft shotdown. From what I can gather the Luftwaffe pilot to score the most kills against US aircraft was Maj. Georg-Peter Eder who had 55 to 57 US kills.


     
  18. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Ofcourse as I see in your post Les which I think you got from the same website as myself Heinrich Bartels seemed to have killed the most US fighter such as the P-51 and P-38. Which yes as you say Lanc makes him one hell of a pilot.
     
  19. wmaxt

    wmaxt Active Member

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    I guess that bomber crewswould skew the stats a lot but even then the stats would be off because a number of pilots/crew got out to live another day.
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hmmm... I'm not sure but I think American's have that honor. Check out the losses in the Civil War.

    Edit: I see this is not what you meant. I thought you were saying the country as a whole and "of all time".

    =S=

    Lunatic
     
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