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The Luftwaffe could have had a serious influence in the east if not comitted in the west.
The Luftwaffe's rate of loss in the west was more than four times that in the east. I've already posted the figures showing that,by sortie,in 1944,a Luftwaffe aircraft was more than seven times as likely to be destroyed in the west than it was in the east.
JA.)if Luftwaffe achieved parity on Eastern Front
held Italy as they did, and had no fear of an invasion on Kanalfront
the war in the east would go at least another year, maybe to a Cease Fire.
both the Yak-3 and La-7weren't even in full combat ops until June 1944 and October 1944 respectively.
You really think we would have given Soviets any advanced US technology
the war in the east is very much different with respect to increased Soviet losses and progress toward defeating Germany.
Warren Bodie mentions two trained fighter groups of P-38, 'lingering' in the continental USA, available form mid 1943 on. Off hand I cannot remember their names, they were mentioned in either his book about P-38 or P-47. He criticizes the USAF for not sending those FGs in ETO in whole 1943.
Unfortunately, the P-38 jockeys would be still hampered by compressibility issues, poor heater, single generator, while the internal fuel was still 300 gals (500 miles combat radius?).
Bodie was wrong about quie a bit of the 'facts' he posed. It has been a long time since I delved into his P-38 book but when I looked at several of the sources he cited, and carefully reviewed what the sources claimed, the two accounts were often in conflict.
The "US hundred thousands" gives for late P-47D (370 + 300 gals) 600 miles of combat radius, on paper that would be enough for Berlin Munich with 50 miles to spare. However, if we remember that escorts were forced to weave, in order to keep the speed up, but not to overtake bombers, they would be still not ideal for the task. The same book gives 700 miles for P-51 (296 + 150 gals).
I wouldn't say this. The invasion would come. Perhaps the Germans just would have a better air contingent to use against Russia.
I pretty much concur, but absent the campaign against the LW, Churchill would have been a hard sell for June - and after June the Invasion at Normandy would have been problematic. While Dragoon had some success, Nomandy had to succeed.
It also should be noted that the LW started to transfer the daylight fighters to Germany after Krusk and before the Mustang.
Agreed - started in june-July, cntinued in October-November and peaked in April-May 1944 (transfers from Sud and Ost)
Again I think you are underestimating the strenght of the LW single-seat fighter force in the West. It was not something the Russians could not defeat. And it wasn't something that the Allies would let only for the Russians do. By 1944, without the Mustang, the escort range might have not allowed targets deep into Germany. Even so, the LW could be engaged by the avaliable escorts until a good point. And don't forget about the Bomber Command and it's night raids. As for the Russians reach a ceasse fire, I'm not certain they would do this. I know you didn't said this, but Stalin was not fighting the Nazis because they were "the bad guys killing innocent people" (what everyone did), but because Germany proved to be a treat to the Soviets that could not be tolerated anymore.
Agreed - but in any case the attrition on the Luftwaffe by US Daylight forces would have been far less - and that attrition in reality was more than the VVS was inflicting in the East. Agreed on Stalin's motives but there may always be reflection on Stalin's future had the Soviet advance stalled appreciably. in mid to late 1944.
Those planes were better than the others in the VVS, but the LW was not handled by them during the 1941-43 period. The Yak-9s and the La-5s, together with the LL machines, could deal with the LW and actually did this. The greatest problem of the VVS was in it's tactical organization. Reforms made in 1944 really changed the things. For example, fighter sweeps were now being done, and the results: satisfactory.
" Handled' is relative, and the degree of attrition inflicted by VVS was higher as the Ost and Sud LW transferred more than 30 staffeln intact - complete with command and experienced flight staff - to the west... effectively gutting disproportionately the Ost front squadrons as new replacements arrived from Germany
Depends. If the Germans jets arrived in a point where the Soviet continuation in the war could be treatned, perhaps yes. But the Russians were not totally without answer to the Germans jets. They had projects of mixed powered planes, together with less advanced but indigenous jets as well. Other possibility would be the American and British engineers help the Russians to perfect their engines to a satisfactory level. Anyway, the German jets would not arrive in numbers until late 1944, and until then the war would be very conventional.
Agreed - if and only if an extreme change of fortunes occurred for the Soviets, and only if the introduction of our own top secret technology was the difference maker... but in any case the P-80 would have been deployed first in the ETO and the B-29 never...
It seems you are talking like if the Russians would be fighting alone. They would not be.
Agreed - it was not my attempt to convey such scenario. On the other hand, had Normandy invasion not occurred in June due to uncertainty of success - the german military resources would have continued to prioritize the East, assuming the LW contains the few squadrons of P-38s available to escort deep target strikes for 8th AF.
And don't loose the focus: there was the P-38, there was the extended range P-47D's, and there would be the P-47N. And there were cuts in the PTO that the Americans could do without any major problem (there were more than 2000 B-29s in the USAAF by 1945!). The Anglo-Americans could even sent air units to operate in Russia (this was proposed historically, but Stalin rejected for political reasons).
Disagree. The critical period was when Doolittle took over 8th AF in December 1943. His goal was tocombine fighter and bomber operations to a.) cripple key German industry, b.) destroy the LW. We can argue the definition of 'destroy' but we only need to look at the statistical impact to LuftFlotte Reich between Doolittle's arrival and D-Day. If you combine air and ground, the P-51B accounted for nearly 2/3 of all the LW fighters in the West and more than 50% of the pilot attrition.
remained effective against RAF night bombing till the end of the war.
OI think the plan went awry when Hitler decided to open the war up on more than one front.
In any case, by NOT following through and invading Great Britain, they doomed themselves
If you check contemporany works like Bagration to Berlin: The Final Air Battles in the East 1944-1945, by Christer Bergstrom, you will see that from 1944 onwards the VVS was more than capable of destroy a much stronger LW.
That's the received wisdom, however as I've posted here before, there wasn't much to choose between loss rates towards the end of the war.
What the VVS could or could not have done isn't the point.
Historically the LW was betean in the Kuban and Krusk air battles, when it was still in the majority in the East. After that, the Soviets only grew stronger and the Germans started to move fighters to the West...