13's....

Wayne Little · Jan 3, 2009

Lucky13 said:
Then the "Black 13" decals are correct for his JG5 109F-4 Wk. Nr. 13169?

Close as you're gonna get....I think....The best were done by Third Group Decals.

Tell me, was his G-6 Trop Wk. Nr. 27169 the last one he flew before he swapped to his G-10 Wk.Nr.130359?

Don't know how many he flew after 27169, but there must have been a couple at least!

Lucky13 · Jan 3, 2009

Just try to figure out what.... Will see if I can find any Third Group Decals, cheers Wayne!

Lucky13 · Jan 3, 2009

Doesn't seem to have a website... Any idea if the decals in question might be their 48-059 Messerschmitt BF109F`s JG 27?

Lucky13 · Jan 4, 2009

21/08/43: Uffz. Ulrich Wenzel, 9./JG 77, Bf 109 G-6 (Wk. Nr. 19954) "Yellow 13", 30 km off La Galite

07/09/43: Fw. Herbert Herglotz, 7./JG 1 Bf 109 G-6 (Wk. Nr. 20585) "White 13", combat with Spitfires, crashed into the North Sea - Pl. Qu. DH/EH

16/04/43: Lt. Hans-Joachim Schmidt, 8./JG 2 Fw 190 A-5 (Wk. Nr. 152705) "Black 13", fuel shortage, crashed into the sea W. Brest.

12/12/44: Gefr. Kurt Nickel, 2./JG 3 Bf 109 G-10 (Wk. Nr. 490759) "Black 13", combat.

17/12/44: Obgfr. Josef Bleicher, 4./JG 3 Bf 109 G-14 (Wk. Nr. 783881) "Green 13", combat.

27/12/44: Uffz. Gustav Aigner, 11./JG 3 Bf 109 G-14 (Wk. Nr. 464118.) "Yellow 13 + |", combat with P-47, S. Malmédy.

02/01/45: Uffz. Josef Hener, 7. (St.)/JG 4 FW 190 A-8/R2 (Wk. Nr. 682667) "yellow 13", combat, near Hagenau - Weissenburg.

10/08/43: Uffz. Alfred Leibersperger, 7./JG 5 Bf 109 G-2 (Wk. Nr. 10406) "White 13", Combat with Hampden, Pl. Qu. 014/37E, near Berveläg, 60 km n.e. of Makur.

18/12/43: Uffz. Paul Fleischhauer, 12./JG 5 Fw 190 A-3 (Wk. Nr. 5500) "Yellow 13", combat, Cap Stadlandet.

25/08/44: Lt. Hans Schwarz, 6./JG 6 Fw 190 A-8 (Wk. Nr. 171522) "Black 13", combat with P-38 near La Fère.

21/05/43, Uffz. Erwin Pieler, 6./JG 11 Bf 109 G-6 (Wk. Nr. 18208.) "Yellow 13", combat with four-engined, crashed into the sea.

26/09/44: Uffz. Walter Pyttlik, 5./JG 11 Bf 109 G-6 (Wk. Nr. 412771) "Black 13", reason and place unknown.

28/09/44: Uffz. Alfons Distelmeier, 3./JG 11 Fw 190 A-8 (Wk. Nr.173038.) "Yellow 13", near Arnhem - Nijmegen.

10/06/43: Uffz. Friedrich Cziossek 6./JG 27 Bf 109 G-4/trop (Wk. Nr. 15041) "Yellow 13 + -", combat with fighter NW Pantelleria.

26/06/44: Fw. Josef Siegmund I./JG 27, 14./JG 27 Bf 109 G-6 (Wk. Nr. 165075) "Red 13", ferry flight Angers-Greenus, combat with P-38 near Angers.

19/08/44: Gefr. Günther Arnold, 12./JG 27 Bf 109 G-6 (Wk. Nr. 413717) "Blue 13 + |", unknown reason W. Paris.

Now, you might wonder what all these pilots have in common other than flying a machine numbered "13"....these are as I understand it, still MIA. There's for the moment no list up for JG7, JG51, JG52, JG53, JG54 and JG400. Just something in my slight "obsession" with, as I said, machines numbered "13"....

Lucky13 · Jan 6, 2009

Does anyone have any lists over JG7, JG51, JG52, JG53, JG54 and their KIA and MIA? I'm looking for those flying "13's", not having much luck finding anything more than those that I've already posted...

Wayne Little · Jan 7, 2009

Will have a look at the JG 53 listings for you....

tango35 · Jan 7, 2009

Hey folks, why talking about decals and images when we have survivorsor restorations.
In a small museum nearby Wiener Neustadt Austria is a restorated Me 109G with a 13 marking.

Source : pbase
Enjoy Thomas

Lucky13 · Jan 7, 2009

Wayne Little said:
Will have a look at the JG 53 listings for you....

Thanks Master Wayne, appreciated!

tango35 said:
Hey folks, why talking about decals and images when we have survivorsor restorations.
In a small museum nearby Wiener Neustadt Austria is a restorated Me 109G with a 13 marking.

Source : pbase
Enjoy Thomas

Thanks for the pics Thomas, appreciated! I think that I might have to steal that '109....8)

tango35 · Jan 7, 2009

Do it for two reasons LOL :

Its a Messerschmitt and austrian.

T.

Lucky13 · Jan 7, 2009

Good enough reasons for me Thomas...

Airframes · Jan 7, 2009

Nice pics Thomas.

Erich · Jan 7, 2009

interesting Weiße 13 numeral of IV.th gruppe

Jan are you looking for photo evidence of JG 7, 51, 52, 53 and 54 ?

Lucky13 · Jan 7, 2009

Erich, young man....I'm looking for anything that you have about JG 7, 51, 52, 53 and 54, pilots that were KIA or MIA flying machines numbered "13", like those I've posted in #64. Other than that, ANYTHING with "13" is most welcome from you...! Was going to do Bartels G-10 "Yellow 13" Wk.Nr.130359 for the group build, but since I don't have much info on that machine, I'm waiting to do that one for a little "Group Build" of my own with his machines on a later date. Already have decals for his JG5 F-4 "Black 13" Wk. Nr. 13169, one of his JG27 G-6Trop "Red 13" Wk. Nr. 27169....so I'm halfway, I think, it all depends how many "13"'s he flew of course. Any idea of the Wk. Nr. on his G-6/R6 13+=?

Erich · Jan 7, 2009

Young man ? I wish ............

I'll try and do a frei jagd for his #13 G-6

you could always do my relative Heinz Bärs Röte 13: Me 262

Lucky13 · Jan 7, 2009

Erich said:
Young man ? I wish ............

I'll try and do a frei jagd for his #13 G-6

you could always do my relative Heinz Bärs Röte 13: Me 262

Ooh Erich, don't you worry about that....Heinz Bärs Röte 13: Me 262, that one is a must and I will get EE's decals for that one....one of the "must have" as I said. 8)

Wayne Little · Jan 8, 2009

Lucky13 said:
, G-6Trop "Red 13" Wk. Nr. 27169
Any idea of the Wk. Nr. on his G-6/R6 13+=?

They are the same aircraft!...just a change of Gruppe symbol, I believe. There is at least One pic with the bars, but I have never seen it.....

Erich said:
you could always do my relative Heinz Bärs Röte 13: Me 262

You're friggin' kidding, Erich!

....time for a family tree listing Erich!

Lucky13 · Jan 8, 2009

Wayne Little said:
They are the same aircraft!...just a change of Gruppe symbol, I believe. There is at least One pic with the bars, but I have never seen it.....

It is...!? I've only seen the the "Red 13+~" as G-6Trop and the "Red 13+=" as a G6/R6, so they might actually be the one and the same aircraft then....?

Lucky13 · Jan 11, 2009

Sorry for moving the quotes over to my "13" thread Erich, only did so to keep track on myself...

Erich said:
Dan remember the weird camo on Yellow 13 from JG 26. 3 different colours on top of a base. remember more and more brown-violet with shades of light/dark green came into play in 45 for ground concealment. I have a colour pic of a NF Ju 88G-6 in similar tones

Who flew this "Yellow 13" and what happened to her and the pilot, any Wk. Nr.?

Erich said:
personal photos of this crate when it used to be down in an Arizona museum, from long ago I went over the boundry ropes and almost hopped into the cockpit. it had the old fuddy duddy paint job that was incorrect before it was moved and a more close-resembling multi-colour format was painted on it. That Eagle files would fit your bill for doing up yellow 13............ I've seen black/white war time pics of this hot rod before the US did their own type of overhaul on it. It served with JG 26 that is a fact.

her are a couple more 13's to entice your drooling mouth Jan

Fw 190D-9 red 13 flown by Fw. Clemens Schmoll shot down with Mustangs west of Neustadt. werk nummer 210 913, 6./JG 301

Oberfähnrich Karl Hänsel was shot down by P-38's west of Neustadt by Lohm in white 13 Fw 190A-8, werk nummer 175 920 from 9./JG 301.

both pilots KIA on 14 January 1945.

Now you're just teasing me Erich...! Would sure love to know more about these machines, their pilots and their tragic deaths in combat. Were these machines carrying solid coloured "13"'s or did they have a border in a different colour, any idea as to which FG's the P-51's and the P-38's belonged to? You're having me getting all excited here and hunger for more info.! Thank you for any, as little as it may be, information that you're willing to share Erich! 8)

Lucky13 · Jan 11, 2009

Found another couple of '190's:
Wk. Nr. 205 233, 2./J.G.54 "Black 13 +", crashed 30.10.44 after combat 12 km N.W. Vainoda, pilot Fw Hugo Welsch MIA.

Wk. Nr. 205 242, 15./J.G.54 "Yellow 13 +", crashed after combat 25.12.44 at Herrschbach, pilot Uffz. Hans Mai KIA.

Erich · Jan 11, 2009

geezo Jan you want me to give everything away out of my future work ?? 8)

I could if I dug into my files give you the US fighter groups on January 14, 45 which would be either the 357th or the 353rd "yellow jackets". both 13's are solid numerals no trim, and I can bet that some of the guys that know Dora-9 camo due to werke nummer preference could help you out with red 13 . RLM 76 base a very faded blue, light grey with darkgrey-violet and dark green over the fuselage-spine...........later Doras of jg 301 had light green base in the 500 werk nummer block series and then two toned greens over the top and fuselage spine. I could be wrong about the 210 block camo as camo is really not my thing

13's....

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