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My basic point is that if the Hurricane was so much better than the Whirlwind, why was the Hurricane withdrawn over Europe in favour of the Typhoon before the Whirlwind?
Oh, no, the FTH for the peregrine was not 13500 ft, but 15000 ft (for +6.75 psi boost).
Because the Whirlwind was NOT OPERATED AS A FIGHTER at the time you refer to. In this respect the comparison with the Hurricane fighter in 1941 is completely irrelevant. The people of Malta would be surprised to hear that it was no longer a front line fighter in 1941. At the end of the war the RAF still had 651 Hurricanes in the UK and a total of over 2,000 in all commands.
The Whirlwind was operated as a ground attack aircraft (later a fighter bomber) in situations where it was unlikely to meet enemy fighters and was in any case escorted by RAF fighters (Spitfire or Hurricane).
How can an aircraft that because of its limitations was not even operated as a fighter be on a list of top three fighters in 1941?
Cheers
Steve
It was actually being withdrawn to be sent to the Middle East, because there were no Spitfires to spare for that theatre.In 1941 the Hurricane was being withdrawn as a fighter in Europe as it wasn't a match for the Me109.
It was still better than nothing, and desert filters could be fitted, unlike the Whirlwind.In the Middle East and Malta as soon as the Me109 arrived the Hurricane suffered huge losses.
In 1941?In the Far East they were totally outclassed by the IJAAF fighters.
Except of course those that were employed as night intruders (see Kuttelwascher); while the Hurricane could fly at night, the Whirlwind's high landing speed meant that it was deemed to be unsuitable.To believe that the Hurricane was a match for the opposition from 1941 onwards flies in the face of all evidence.
From 1941 its role was as a GA aircraft as was the Whirlwind.
Out of 87 Hurricane II Squadrons, 10 converted onto the Typhoon, while 43 converted onto the Spitfire V, which seems to indicate that the Air Ministry were more interested in equipping as many Squadrons as possible with the best available fighter.In Europe the Hurricane units were the first to convert to the Typhoon a statement you can easily check, the Whirlwind squadrons were amongst the last, something else you can easily check. So the question still stands, why if the Hurricane was so much better than the Whirlwind, did the Whirlwind squadrons be amongst the last to convert to the Typhoon?
Greyman tomahawk is not too light?
In 1941 the Hurricane was being withdrawn as a fighter in Europe as it wasn't a match for the Me109. In the Middle East and Malta as soon as the Me109 arrived the Hurricane suffered huge losses. In the Far East they were totally outclassed by the IJAAF fighters. The RAF knew this as did the Pilots. To believe that the Hurricane was a match for the opposition from 1941 onwards flies in the face of all evidence.
From 1941 its role was as a GA aircraft as was the Whirlwind.
In Europe the Hurricane units were the first to convert to the Typhoon a statement you can easily check, the Whirlwind squadrons were amongst the last, something else you can easily check. So the question still stands, why if the Hurricane was so much better than the Whirlwind, did the Whirlwind squadrons be amongst the last to convert to the Typhoon?
To say that the Whirlwind operated in areas where it was unlikely to meet enemy fighters is also incorrect. They flew a normal variety of missions, convoy patrols certainly but also targeted enemy airbases attacks on ports, blockade runners, factories, bridges and bomber escort, as I said the normal mixture of missions. In three years of combat in two squadrons 24 were lost in combat, 7 missing in action and 5 written off with battle damage after crash landings. 36 losses to enemy action in three years of combat across two squadrons in the most hostile air combat area around. I suspect these figures had something to do with the RAF delaying the conversion of the Whirlwind to Typhoons.
In dogfights with the Me109f at low altitude the Whirlwind more than held its own, something a Hurricane would struggle to do.
Some were withdrawn to the Middle East some were converted to other types.It was actually being withdrawn to be sent to the Middle East, because there were no Spitfires to spare for that theatre.
It was still better than nothing, and desert filters could be fitted, unlike the Whirlwind.
True but night intruders and also Hurricanes deployed as nightfighters were there because they couldn't live in the air by day. Something the Whirlwind did right to the end of its service.Except of course those that were employed as night intruders (see Kuttelwascher); while the Hurricane could fly at night, the Whirlwind's high landing speed meant that it was deemed to be unsuitable.
Again True, but its interesting that they didn't convert the Whirlwind until the planes were more or less worn out. Had the Whirlwind been worse than the Hurricane they presumably would have been withdrawn first. Typhoons were used to escort Whirlwinds on some of the latter missions.Out of 87 Hurricane II Squadrons, 10 converted onto the Typhoon, while 43 converted onto the Spitfire V, which seems to indicate that the Air Ministry were more interested in equipping as many Squadrons as possible with the best available fighter.
No I hadn't forgotten but the story is stranger than that and is drawn from the book 263 and 137 Squadrons the Whirlwind YearsPerhaps you need reminding that, even though 263 Squadron converted straight onto the Typhoon, 137, in June 1943, converted onto the Hurricane IV, then to the Typhoon in January 1944, so somebody in the RAF/Air Ministry didn't share your view on the superiority of the Whirlwind over the Hurricane.
The problem wasn't that the Hurricane was better than the Whirlwind, its simply that the RAF ran out of Whirlwinds and at the time didn't have any Sabre engines.
You really must get away from this "better than" obsession; both aircraft were considered "past it" by mid-1941:-The problem wasn't that the Hurricane was better than the Whirlwind, its simply that the RAF ran out of Whirlwinds and at the time didn't have any Sabre engines.
i hope that some american fighters expert can reply
looking on Baugher description of E and F, the drop tank capability was not present in the first batch of F, but the empty weight of F is 384 lbs heavier of E, and the engine of F were -49/53 versus the -27/29 of E.
I'm sure that many air forces would have not trouble to use also the original P-38
If the Typhoon had come into service and been anything like a good serviceable aircraft then the Hurricane would have ended production very quickly.
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I comparison with the Hurricane, P-40B/C/D/E, the P-39 and F4F - the P-38E was certainly more capable with respect to speed, range, climb, and firepower so I don't understand the reluctance to include a 'top fighter 1941'..
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