1945

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by seangday, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. seangday

    seangday New Member

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    Just wondering, where do you draw the line at ww2 warbirds? Would it include planes that were being developed at the time ,or would they have to actually taken part in combat?
     
  2. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    #2 syscom3, Nov 25, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
    Good question.

    I myself would think it includes any piston engined aircraft that was on the drawing board at the official end of WW2.

    As for jets, only the ones that were flying in 1945 qualify.
     
  3. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    Why is that?
    Why not the jets that were on the drawing board too?
     
  4. Messy1

    Messy1 Well-Known Member

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    I would say for discussions sake on this website, only ones that actually entered service before the war ended, other wise the list would be very long. Especially when you start to add all the aircraft that were on the drawing boards of the various nations involved in WW2 that were in development.
     
  5. Waynos

    Waynos Active Member

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    #5 Waynos, Nov 25, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
    Which three jets syscom? Vampire, P-80 and He 280? :D

    My facetious joke, obviously I hope, is intended to say that I would class anything that was flying before hostilities ceased as a warbird. Before someone asks, yes I would draw a disctinction between the ETO and PTO, ie, an August 1945 British prototype is not a warbird, but an American one would be. To me anyways.
     
  6. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    for me taken part in combat
     
  7. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    I'd say if it didn't see combat, in this instance WW2, it's not a 'warbird' - just a' bird' !
     
  8. gumbyk

    gumbyk Well-Known Member

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    How about trainers Airframes??? Surely some of them must qualify as warbirds? :lol::lol::lol:
     
  9. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    not trainbirds?
     
  10. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    What about the Skyraider, Bearcat and Tigercat? All were in production or had been accepted for use, but hadnt reached the combat zone.
     
  11. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    easy not combat not warbird,
     
  12. Messy1

    Messy1 Well-Known Member

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    If it went into production, it's ok by me.
     
  13. Flyboy2

    Flyboy2 Member

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    I think having airplanes on the drawing board does NOT count. The Germans had hundreds of aircraft on the drawing board, and while I consider them to be part of World War II, I do not put them on the same level as the P-51 for instance.

    I agree that taking part in combat is a big condition as well as squadron service. I do not count the P-80 and Vampire as World War II, but thats just me.
     
  14. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    That's a hard call to make, but from my viewpoint, if a machine was designed and built to be deployed in a theater of battle, then it is a warbird. The fact that it was on the drawing board definately qualifies it as a historical item.

    That the machine actually made it into combat shouldn't be a sole determining factor, but the fact that it was designed, built and ready for a combat application during the time period would be a qualifier.

    As far as the mentioned WWII jet warbirds go, the P-80 actually did make it to a combat zone (2 to England, 2 to Italy) during WWII, therefore it is a WWII Warbird. The He280 was flown and production ready very early in the war, and it was presented for evaluation to the RLM combat ready (equipped with three MG151/20 cannon), qualifying it is a WWII Warbird. Unfortunately, the DH VAmpire wouldn't qualify as a true WWII warbird, as it was far too late to enter any theater before the end of hostilities, but the Gloster Meteor definately would.
     
  15. gumbyk

    gumbyk Well-Known Member

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    Prsonally, I think anything that saw active service during WW2, whatever that role was, qualifies as a WW2 warbird.
    As for those types that did fly before the end of the war and eventually entered service, how many were there?
     
  16. seangday

    seangday New Member

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    I would have agreed with syscom3, particulaly about the bearcat. Where would the seafire or hawker tempest fit in? I would have included them in as warbirds and not just because as derivatives, but in their own right.
     
  17. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo Active Member

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    I'm not agree on this He 280 was a potentially warbird not a actually warbird. P-80 is not a warbird like the Fw 190 is not a summer '41 plane (in summer test Fw 190 where go in France for test and for true also test exemplares in German were in combat zone)
     
  18. riacrato

    riacrato Member

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    Anything that saw combat service before end of hostilities.
     
  19. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    Theres a vast difference between having something on the drawing board and actually having the same in the air as a protoype.

    Although they are not "true" WW2 aircraft as per the wording, they are still WW2 era aircraft having been in the air at, or shortly after hostilities ended.

    Thats why I consider the F7F, F8F, Skyraider and P80 as being WW2 aircraft.

    The Skyraider was already 4 months into testing and evaluation when the war ended.
    The Bearcat was already in production and already had a squadron enroute to Japan when the war ended.
    The Tigercat was already flying in 1943, so it too is a true WW2 warbird, even though fate would have it not have a role in the war.
    The P80 was in production when the war ended and squadrons and groups being formed.
     
  20. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    There was no denying that the Seafire was a navalised Spitfire but naval force projection meant that the Seafire could readily reach targets that the Spitfire could not. Out of reach (and therefore help) of its land-based cousin, maybe judged on its own merits?

    The Tempest was certainly an improved Typhoon but in my opinion it's stretching it somewhat to say it was merely a Typhoon II, there were many changes; the outward similarity is maintained visually (very strongly) with the chin radiator but Hawker had plenty of opportunities to drop that, in which case people might not have made the Typhoon/Tempest connection quite so strongly, no more strongly say, than the Hurricane/Typhoon connection.
     
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