23rd August 1944

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by Konigstiger205, Aug 23, 2008.

  1. Konigstiger205

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    Romania turns against Germany, turning the Eastern front into chaos. The Germans were presented with a peaceful offer to leave the Romanian territory, but of course they chose to fight. While fighting the Germans attacks, king Michael I offered the Allies his support thus declaring war against Germany. Those where hard times for Romania. Russians poured into our country and although we where allies the Russians did what they did best, they raped, killed and robed. For more info check
    King Michael's Coup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Back in the communist era 23 august was celebrated as the "Liberation Day", now just a few remind the meaning of this day.
     
  2. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Glad Romania survived it.

    :salute:
     
  3. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    Konigstiger, what is the general feeling in Romania towards the Russian's now? Indifference? Appathy? Hatred?
     
  4. Ramirezzz

    Ramirezzz Member

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    please avoid such almost racist comments. There're numerous accounts what the Romanian troops did in occupied territories in USSR.
     
  5. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Agreed, lets keep it civil.

    Now having said that, I can understand what the Romanians went through as well. Good thing that your country has emerged from this terrible time and survived.
     
  6. Konigstiger205

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    True...I made a mistake saying that and those were different times.To answer to Thorlifter's question, well after 50 years of communism, believe it or not mostly old people miss what we called the "Golden age". But the majority hated those time especially towards the end when the country was in serious problems. In conclusion the feelings are mixed but mostly indifferent and hatred.
     
  7. stasoid

    stasoid Member

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    It's interesting to watch how 60 years later aggressors and murderers who once started the war, suddenly emerge as victims.
     
  8. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    If someone called your people murderers you would get pretty pissed off. Chill the **** out, or go someplace else!

    Besides dont fool yourself into thinking that your people are innocent...
     
  9. Konigstiger205

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    No country is innocent, we all do mistakes, some are small others are big.The important thing is to learn from them.No army is perfect and there will always be soldiers who won't follow the rules. I did not started this thread to accuse anyone but to show people what happened.
     
  10. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    and thank you for that. Piece of history I was only vaguely aware of.
     
  11. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    Rumania is one of the most misunderstood nations of the war. they are often blamed for the German encirclement at Stalingrad, without people understanding what really happened there. People are quick to point out the Rumanian failures, and are unwilling, or unable to acknowledge their achivements, or allowing for the fact that they were a small agrarian nation with extremely limited resources. Nor do people understand the cirscumstances that led the rumanians to war. At the very beginning of the war, Rumania was actually pr-allied. As the war progressed, particulalry after the fall of france, the Rumanians found themselves under threat from many angles. The hungarians were annexing Transylvania under the Vienna accords, the Russians had already annexed Bessarabia, the Bulgarians were annexing regions in the South. Faced with this sort of natioanl cannibalism the Rumanians had no real choice in 1941.

    After barbarossa began, the Rumanians acquitted themselves quite well in the fighting. The initial operations of the 1st Armoured Div (under it brilliant commander Radu Korne - later to recieve the Iron cross with Oak leave (I think)) were brilliant, resulting in the early, and easy, capture of the Bessarabian capital, Chisinau. In these battles, the 1st armoured, with its rather antiquated Pzkpfw 35s managed to encircle and defeat far more formidable Russian Tanks and formations. They were the only minor nation in the Axis camp to capture a major allied city with only minimal assistance from the germans (Odessa). They provided real assistance with their Mountain Corps in the capture of Sevastopol fortress, one of the most difficult assaults of a fortified position in the entire war.

    Prior to Stalingrad the successes I had mentioned before along with the winter and preceding summers campaign had bled the Rumanian army of its pre-war cadre and experience. The troops dug in on the flanks of Stalingrad were short of manpower, short of equipment (thanks to a reneging deal by Germany, who only delivered less than a third of promised heavy ATGs in exchange for oil....they got their oil, but only delivered a small fraction of the ATGs, and then even these were inferior converted French 75s, and not the latest 75mm ATGs as promised), and many of its pre-war officers were already gone. Yet contray to the popular myth, it was not the rumanians who broke in the face of the Russian offensive. it was the German "stiffening" formations, sent to stiffen the rumanian defences, and provide a mobile reserve for them, under the command of the rumanian Army commander. It is not an exaggeratiuon to say that the German contribution to these defences was less than useful. The German commander refused to follow orders, did not get into any serious combat, and left the Rumanian defenders, fighting at the frontier (and at that stage of the battle not surrendering or running). Instead of doing what he should have, and was ordered to do, the German commander and his men commandeered every piece of trasport they could, and bugged out towards the west, leaving the Rumanians to their fate (which also meant they left their fellow germans in Stalingrad also to their fate).

    In the relief efforts that followed the encirclement of 6th Army, the Rumanian armoured div and its intrepid leader Radu Korne (again) figured prominantly, and efffectively. his outstanding leadership of his formation earned him the oak leaves I mentioned, and once again, it was the german formations rather than Rumanian who gave up the ghost (to be fair 1st aemoured was not in the thick of it, but it was defending the german Panzer Korps flanks, and fighting T-34s with its mark 35s.

    After the fall of Stalingrad, the Rumanians from the German point of view did become a net liability, except that they continued to fulfil vlauable reara re functions suchas anti-partisan work. In the air the Rumanians (and Hungarians) provided about 60% of the air assets for AGS throughout the early part of 1943 and at least 50% through to the end of 1943. The top scoring ace in the Rumanian AF scored an impressive tally, about 67 victories from memory.

    At sea, the tiny Rumaian Navy was responsible for sinking at least two Soviet Subs that I know of, and during the attack on Sevastopol provided effective interdiction with its light forces..

    All in all, not a bad effort for a nation genrlly derided and scorned by both German and russian sources.
     
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