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Well I think it's the same as when GregP said "Get real"
I don't think that was necessary from GregP
If he can say "Get real" then Luft.4 can say what he said.
State for us fact by fact,it just means your premise is flawed in the extreme, in my opinion.
The main point of contention in the thread is very clearly what defines a victory. 7 pages of it. Lets not being to misrepresent that too now by injecting a mellow tone feel-good statement.as both sides don't even agree what the main point of contention is.
Lets not being to misrepresent that too now by injecting a mellow tone feel-good statement.
I don't like getting involved in these, however I point to item No.2 "enveloped in flames".Looky here, Official USAF protocol for claiming, notice how they too set the bar at destruction?
ok, my bad for putting it that way i am at work and rushed that.The main point of contention in the thread is very clearly what defines a victory. 7 pages of it. Lets not being to misrepresent that too now by injecting a mellow tone feel-good statement.
One side says victory doe not equate to a loss, the other side says yes it does.
I have put forward ample primary evidence. Awaiting what the other side can do with primary evidence.
ok, my bad for putting it that way i am at work and rushed that.
i wanted to say wont ever agree on the main point of contention (what is considered a Kill)
but again with the jibes, you just can't help yourself !
I really appreciate the honest approach, understood that typing from work, like many of us, one may not gain the entire context of the thread especially if they pop in suddenly. You are genuine enough to address that.ok, my bad for putting it that way i am at work and rushed that.
i wanted to say wont ever agree on the main point of contention (what is considered a Kill)
but again with the jibes, you just can't help yourself !
I'm in total agreement. That is exactly the problem creditors faced back then. My post #97 address this too from the Luftwaffe's side. There too they explicitly stated that trailing smoke is the weakest indicator and that other supportive evidence is required.I don't like getting involved in these, however I point to item No.2 "enveloped in flames".
There has been more than one victory credited when a plane was seen diving away "enveloped in flames", trailing smoke, and yet the fire goes out, the plane keeps flying, out of sight of the furball and returns the pilot home.
Absolutely.@GregP Hi I think I mentioned this before but when Sakai Saburo got hit in the eye on 7 August 1942, he flew his damaged A6M back to Rabaul and landed it safely. (No crash landing) The SBD gunner was credited with shooting him down but Sakai landed safely. Do you consider this to be a victory for the SBD gunner?
....
I beg to differ.there is very little to be gained in continuing this disagreement
that is a much bigger view than the one i was hinting at Snautzer.I beg to differ.
I have been researching ww2 since the 1980.
One could see what i do on a daily basis just posting relevant stuff here. I think one can see commitment right there.
This is not the only site, nor do i only post pictures. I have helped some people in writing land. And even a game like il-2.
I like the continuity of whathorseUSA has done for years. It stays up and running. Reliable always. And might i add we have a Wurger
Now.
As the owner of this site put up a special section for writers , one, and i am one, could have thought, this site wants to attract writers and when they put out a book come and discuss it here. A big plus i think.
One does not have to take everything for granted but with a little research one can find stuff out.
That doesnt go well now does it. Right here.
Sadly a few of said established writers do not come here any more. Dana for one.
There are more i am sorry to say.
I hope you will start from page 1 and read. And keep in mind who did the legwork. The research.
Groundhog thread... sure.
Established, peer proven vs an opinion.
So it is quite fundamental for the course of this site wants to stear.
One needs to take a stand sometimes.
I think i just did.
that is a much bigger view than the one i was hinting at Snautzer.
i believe both sides are totally entrenched in their view of what is a confirmed Victory (i don't like using kill, though it is a valid description) that the thread will just go back and forth until someone says something out of hand and the thread is closed.
i don't think anyone is rubbishing anyone's books
^ This.Established, peer proven vs an opinion.