Ace pilot with inferior aircraft vs not-so-ace pilot with superior aircraft?

[Friendly Fire]

I decided to throw out the stuff-throwing at the ME 262's engine. The ME 262's tail won't be completely wreaked, but instead the control cables are cut. Would the loss of control of the tail fins' flaps but with the tail still mostly intact cause an immediate pitch down?

I've came across some articles mentioning about a ME 262 pilot possibly coming close to the speed of sound during a steep dive at close to 600 mph, lost control, and suffered some damages (rivets popping out of the wings, both engines flamed out, etc). Would it be possible for Paul to also do the same, but completely lose control of the jet plane and hit the water at over 600 mph?

(Yes, I'm toying around with an anti-climatic ending. The antagonist, Paul, accidentally kills himself after sending Daniel into the water.)

 

[Njaco]

At first look I would say no because the altitude at which the jet would need to dive from to achieve mach would not be a height which the DrI would operate.

Heres a question for everyone: Wouldn't the cannon armament of the 262 just blow hrough the fabric of the Dr I without any serious damage?

 

[gumbyk]

Yes, damage to the elevator cables or trim system could conceivably cause a pitch-down. I don't know how the ME262 was rigged, but usually the elevator produces a small down-force. Certainly, anyone who would pick if such a scenario was wrong is in the small minority of WW2 experts I would think.

 

[Friendly Fire]

Here's a question for everyone: Wouldn't the cannon armament of the 262 just blow through the fabric of the Dr I without any serious damage?

I think if there are enough holes in the fabric, it would cause some serious airflow problems and the wings would be unable to generate enough lift because the skin was all chewed-up. Assuming the shells don't hit something hard, such as the frame, pilot or engine.

 

[tyrodtom]

If you severed the control cables, it'd just continue in whatever direction it was going when they were cut. You could still control it up and down with the trim system, but that is a slow process, and might not be able to redirect the aircraft quick enough if at low altitude.

So if he's in a dive when the cables are cut, it continues diving. He can try and recover with the trim, but it might not be quick enough to prevent ground impact.

 

[gumbyk]

If you severed the control cables, it'd just continue in whatever direction it was going when they were cut. You could still control it up and down with the trim system, but that is a slow process, and might not be able to redirect the aircraft quick enough if at low altitude.

So if he's in a dive when the cables are cut, it continues diving. He can try and recover with the trim, but it might not be quick enough to prevent ground impact.

Assuming that it was flying in trim in the first place. It would return to what it was trimmed for (eventually) if the aircraft was stable. If you are manoeuvring like this, you aren't constantly adjusting the trim.
The other way of recovery is to increase power. At a set trim, increasing power will put the aircraft into a climb

 

[Elmas]

It is certainly a problem to intercept a small and slow plane with a powerful jet fighter, as Mathias Rust proved....
As small and slow planes in these days of terrorism are a real and dangerous threat, the Air Forces rely to intercept these flies not on jets but on powerful helicopters.

 

[tyrodtom]

Assuming that it was flying in trim in the first place. It would return to what it was trimmed for (eventually) if the aircraft was stable. If you are manoeuvring like this, you aren't constantly adjusting the trim.
The other way of recovery is to increase power. At a set trim, increasing power will put the aircraft into a climb

Yes, but sort of counter intuitive to a low time pilot, especially one already low and fast.

I can imagine him reducing power, which would make it dive even steeper, then realizing his mistake, adding power, but too late.

 

[gumbyk]

yeah, I could imagine that scenario as well. In level flight, finds he has no (or very limited) elevator authority, and closes the throttle.
Kind of the opposite to the Sioux City accident.

 

[pbfoot]

Assuming that it was flying in trim in the first place. It would return to what it was trimmed for (eventually) if the aircraft was stable. If you are manoeuvring like this, you aren't constantly adjusting the trim.
The other way of recovery is to increase power. At a set trim, increasing power will put the aircraft into a climb

Works the other way in a Catalina because IIRC the power sits way up high and changes the Cof G , I could be wrong for the CG part

 

[gumbyk]

There are a couple of force-couples at work here.
Basically, the tailplane usually exerts a down-force to keep the nose up. As the aircraft slows, this down-force reduces and the nose lowers. Effectively, it will try to keep whatever speed the aircraft was trimmed for (in most aircraft).

In the Catalina (and most flying boats) as the thrust line is above the drag line, an increase in thrust will cause a nose-down pitch. I'd think in the ME262 it would be the opposite, and produce a nose-up pitching moment. When an aircraft reaches a constant speed, the thrust and drag will cancel each other out.