Aircraft Identification V

carson1934 · Jul 17, 2009

Tzaw1 said:
With this registration flew Watter MWT-1.

Very very good Tzaw1 I didn't even know that Mexico ever produced an aircraft!
Here's what flightglobal says:
quote
"The MWT1 long range monoplane designed by Dr. Michael Watter and built in Mexico. It is fitted with a Pratt Whitney "Wasp" engine"
unquote
carson

carson1934 · Jul 17, 2009

Waynos said:
I'm sure they did Tzaw1. But this aint one of 'em. I would only point to the reggie as a clue for one reason.

How stupid of me Waynos, I looked up Letadla because I remembered that OK = Czechoslovakia but I just skipped this very plane!
By the way what's the meaning of "reggie"?
carson
Maybe it means registration?

Waynos · Jul 17, 2009

Yes thats right, its an abbreviation of registration. Good one on the Mexican jobbie Verner, I like that very much.

There is something very attractive about the thirties for me. Preparing for war but still surrounded by the naivety of peace. A bit like today I suppose. What was this little experiment all about?
(RAF registration removed by me to stop people looking it up )

AMCKen · Jul 17, 2009

verner said:
Let's try this one;

Often wondered just how effective can a propellor be when half its diameter is blanked out by the engine.

Graeme · Jul 18, 2009

Waynos said:
(RAF registration removed by me to stop people looking it up )

Was it K5053? The Northrop Gamma 2E?

Waynos said:
What was this little experiment all about?

Absolutely no idea.

lingo · Jul 18, 2009

Graeme said:
Was it K5053? The Northrop Gamma 2E?

I think it is.

Waynos · Jul 18, 2009

Yes thats it, K5053, next on the register was the Spitifre!

The Northrop 2E is correct. Accordimng to the Flight of the time - 'This has been purchased in accordance with Air Ministry policy of buying examples of the latest and best foreign hardware to allow comparison of them with our own aeroplanes'

Funny, I don't recall the Air Ministry buying a Bf 109?

Tzaw1 · Jul 18, 2009

Exactly. This is the Northrop Gamma 2ED-C alias A-17 tested by the A&AEE at Martlesham Heath. Summer 1935.
S/n: 47; US civil registration: X13760; RAF serial: K5053.

BTW I found other, new for me, Gamma's variant: 2G with Curtiss Conqueror SVG-1570F-4, Photo from Putnam's "McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920".

Waynos · Jul 18, 2009

The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Here's another

carson1934 · Jul 18, 2009

Tzaw1 said:
Exactly. This is the Northrop Gamma 2ED-C alias A-17 tested by the A&AEE at Martlesham Heath. Summer 1935.
S/n: 47; US civil registration: X13760; RAF serial: K5053.

BTW I found other, new for me, Gamma's variant: 2G with Curtiss Conqueror SVG-1570F-4, Photo from Putnam's "McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920".

If I may bring my little contribute the Northrop Gamma's story of 1934 is a most interesting one. The aircraft in question (K5053 pic attached) was exported to RAF as you gentlemen said, Furthermore:
- 1 went to USSR
- 24 (+ 25 in component form) went to China
2EC and 2ED (for the ignoramus like myself) indicated three blade propellers, revised tail and varied seating configuration.
Source of this information is Aerofiles.
carson

carson1934 · Jul 18, 2009

Waynos said:
The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Here's another

This looks very british but besides that I wouldn't know.....
carson

carson1934 · Jul 18, 2009

Tzaw1 said:
Exactly. This is the Northrop Gamma 2ED-C alias A-17 tested by the A&AEE at Martlesham Heath. Summer 1935.
S/n: 47; US civil registration: X13760; RAF serial: K5053.

BTW I found other, new for me, Gamma's variant: 2G with Curtiss Conqueror SVG-1570F-4, Photo from Putnam's "McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920".

Hi Tzaw1,
your pictures are always beautiful, rare and instructive!
Let me tell you that on Aerofiles you will find one more beautiful picture of the Northrop Gamma 2G (serial number X13761) with in-line engine Curtiss SWG-1570-F4.
Cheers
carson

carson1934 · Jul 18, 2009

Waynos said:
The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Here's another

Hi Waynos
I don't mean to nitpick especially with a competent person of your caliber...However Aerofiles states that:
"Gamma 2C (1933) with Wright R-1820 prototype went to Army as YA-13. It was rebuilt in 1934 and designated 2F with P&W R-1830-7 became Army XA-16"
Cheers
carson

Tzaw1 · Jul 18, 2009

Waynos said:
Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Yes. You are right. But by the A&AEE K5053 was probably descripted as A-17. See: Mason's British Flight Testing.

That last bird looks very british, but similarly planes were from France, Italy or Japan too.
No idea

carson1934 · Jul 18, 2009

Tzaw1 said:
Yes. You are right. But by the A&AEE K5053 was probably descripted as A-17. See: Mason's British Flight Testing.

That last bird looks very british, but similarly planes were from France, Italy or Japan too.
No idea

I also have no idea but not italian for sure
carson

Waynos · Jul 18, 2009

There were so many twists and turns and variations in the Northrop Gamma story that there is much contradictory stuff out there, but basically we all know what plane we are referring to eh guys

You both got the country right for the latest one. It is British and although very a competent design for its day, a rarely seen type from a VERY famous maker.

Graeme · Jul 18, 2009

Waynos said:
You both got the country right for the latest one. It is British and although very a competent design for its day, a rarely seen type from a VERY famous maker.

My source shows it spatless and with a longer nose but I suspect its the Avro 642 (G-ACFV). Googling also shows a 4-engine conversion, which is news to me.

lingo · Jul 18, 2009

Graeme said:
My source shows it spatless and with a longer nose but I suspect its the Avro 642 (G-ACFV). Googling also shows a 4-engine conversion, which is news to me.

I'm sure that you are right Graeme. The prototype originally had a different nose altogether.

Tzaw1 · Jul 18, 2009

But this is not really 642/2m
Waynos'es photo is from advertising.
They inserted carriage from 642/4m to the original photo.

Waynos · Jul 19, 2009

Well done Graeme - and bonus kudos to Tzaw1! The Avro went through various changes in its life but it seems Avro could not persuade anyone to buy it. Which makes me wonder what was wrong with it as, to my modern eyes, it doesn't look like it would be any worse than other contemporary designs. Its a shame you found the 4 motor version as I was going to use that after a few more pics just as a test

Advertising images are a great source from the 30's and 40's. You get a feel for what they *wanted* the plane to look like, Like the Heyford image below with its very refined fuselage, in comparison with what was built. They are also a good source for the first images of a type. Earlier in the thread I posted an image from Westland for what became the wyvern, taken fromm a wartime advert when its development had only just begun and its existance was top secret. Similarly there is a Blackburn ad that was printed in 1936/37 showing a 'generic' advanced monoplane in a dive that was revealed, several months later, and with a Mercury radial, rather than the 'Kestrel type' of the ad, to the the Skua, also below.

Finally, at the very bottom, is your next, image

Aircraft Identification V

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Senior Airman

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