Aircraft Identification V

[carson1934]

Well done Graeme - and bonus kudos to Tzaw1! The Avro went through various changes in its life but it seems Avro could not persuade anyone to buy it. Which makes me wonder what was wrong with it as, to my modern eyes, it doesn't look like it would be any worse than other contemporary designs. Its a shame you found the 4 motor version as I was going to use that after a few more pics just as a test

Advertising images are a great source from the 30's and 40's. You get a feel for what they *wanted* the plane to look like, Like the Heyford image below with its very refined fuselage, in comparison with what was built. They are also a good source for the first images of a type. Earlier in the thread I posted an image from Westland for what became the wyvern, taken fromm a wartime advert when its development had only just begun and its existance was top secret. Similarly there is a Blackburn ad that was printed in 1936/37 showing a 'generic' advanced monoplane in a dive that was revealed, several months later, and with a Mercury radial, rather than the 'Kestrel type' of the ad, to the the Skua, also below.

Finally, at the very bottom, is your next, image

Hi Waynos,
the advertising images are very interesting like everything you edit (btw would it be possible to get a few more of such ad images in colour?) however I must confess that last pic you are submitting represents such a
hideous monster that I can't even think of a country where it was manufactured...
carson

 

[lingo]

ST-10?

 

[Tzaw1]

Monospar Croydon alias General Aircraft S.T. 18

 

[Waynos]

Close lingo, but Tzaw1 has it! The ST.18 from General Aircraft Ltd. Carson nailed the description though, a hideous monster indeed

I think I'll sit back and let someone else post for a while or I'll run out of images. Carson, the ads are printed in black and white in the Jane's All The Worlds Aircraft and Flight mags that I have, plus the online Flight archive, which saves scanning old mags, but there was a book published dedicated to Aviation advertising art. I never bought it (though I intend to) and you should be able to find it on ebay.

 

[lingo]

Hi Waynos,
the advertising images are very interesting like everything you edit (btw would it be possible to get a few more of such ad images in colour?) however I must confess that last pic you are submitting represents such a
hideous monster that I can't even think of a country where it was manufactured...
carson

ER, in Britain designed by a Swiss!

 

[carson1934]

Let's leave Waynos in peace for a moment.
I'll take the helm for a brief moment and invite all and sundry to identify this much nicer fighter of the thirties (I don't think it's going to last more than ten minutes)
carson

 

[carson1934]

Monospar Croydon alias General Aircraft S.T. 18

Congratulations Tzaw1 it wasn't easy...I should have thought of General Aircraft specialized in producing terrible looking aircrafts like the "Fleet Shadower", the "Cagnet", etc. I think the best looking ones were the ST/12 (which operated also during the spanish civil war in 1937) and the ST/25 which were already ugly enough...
carson

 

[carson1934]

Close lingo, but Tzaw1 has it! The ST.18 from General Aircraft Ltd. Carson nailed the description though, a hideous monster indeed

I think I'll sit back and let someone else post for a while or I'll run out of images. Carson, the ads are printed in black and white in the Jane's All The Worlds Aircraft and Flight mags that I have, plus the online Flight archive, which saves scanning old mags, but there was a book published dedicated to Aviation advertising art. I never bought it (though I intend to) and you should be able to find it on ebay.

Monospar Croydon ~ Outside Lomcovak Club.
A while ago I called the ST/18 "a hideous monster" without knowing what exciting story lies behind this one-off aircraft. Did you know that a bunch of brave men attempted a flight UK-Australia and they made it on the outward journey just to be marooned on a coral reef outside Darwin on the homeward journey?
I invite everybody to read the full story by using the above link and I'm sure you'll like it as I did!
carson

PS Thanks for the above information concerning Aviation advertising Art Waynos

 

[Waynos]

Let's leave Waynos in peace for a moment.
I'll take the helm for a brief moment and invite all and sundry to identify this much nicer fighter of the thirties (I don't think it's going to last more than ten minutes)
carson

Its the F4U Corsairs daddy, the Vought V-150, which was the more powerful version of the V-143. You're welcome Carson. I looked up the title for you in case you want to get it, the book is called "100 Years of Advertising in British Aviation " and its by Colin Cruddas, and I just ordered one from ebay, my search revealed several available.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Nice Waynos!

I have to admit, it's a good looking aircraft!

 

[Tzaw1]

Sorry, but this was rather V-141 than V-150.
Photo from "Corsair and others. Aeroplanes Vought 1917-1977"
According this book, V-150 "none were ever built".

 

[Waynos]

Tzaw1, I have no reason to argue with that. The same photo as Carson posted is in Jane's 1938 where it is noted as the V-150 in the way that I said (except the bit about beingh the Corsairs dad) . As Janes has always covered upcoming aircraft they may well have used a stock photo to illustrate the entry.

 

[carson1934]

Tzaw1, I have no reason to argue with that. The same photo as Carson posted is in Jane's 1938 where it is noted as the V-150 in the way that I said (except the bit about beingh the Corsairs dad) . As Janes has always covered upcoming aircraft they may well have used a stock photo to illustrate the entry.

This is a very interesting debate gentlemen but Aerofiles says it is a Northrop 3A of 1935, whether Aerofiles is right or wrong I really don't know
carson

PS I'll order also one copy of the book about aircraft advertising!

However Aerofiles also state:
quote
"Design rights sold in 1936 to Vought and became Vought V/141"
unquote
Therefore Northrop 3A and Vought V/141 seem to amount to be the same plane

 

[carson1934]

Now that the subject Northrop/Vought seems to be settled I'd like to submit a new challenge, this being the first all metal plane of USN in the twenties:

carson

 

[Tzaw1]

I have no reason to argue with that.

Jane's often stumbles. Example? E.g. in this same Jane's 1938 photo of Polish PZL P.24F. In fact this is PZL P.24H. P.24F had 2 Oerlikon cannons. Plane at photo has 4 machine guns (Brownings 303)
When V-150 never was produced these are two possibilities:
1. this is V-141
2. V-143 before the reconstruction.
Yet more one photo V-141 from America's Hundred-Thosand. US Production Fighters of World War Two.
And the fragment of the text from Corsair and others-Aeroplanes Vought 1917-1977 explained my suppositions.

Aerofiles says it is a Northrop 3A of 1935, whether Aerofiles is right or wrong I really don't know

Aerofiles are right
There were some modifications by Vought. They drawings and fabricated new landing gear and made changes in the vertical tail surfaces.

 

[Tzaw1]

Now that the subject Northrop/Vought seems to be settled I'd like to submit a new challenge, this being the first all metal plane of USN in the twenties:

carson

Naval Aircraft Factory NM-1

 

[carson1934]

Naval Aircraft Factory NM-1

In order to let everybody sleep in peace let me tell you that this is a Stout ST/1 a US product of 1922 and that this Company faced bankruptcy after this very prototype crashed following several flights
carson

 

[Waynos]

That will be because they made it look too French

Great pic Carson, only wish I'd seen it sooner, now I'm over my pig flu I'm back at work, hence the no posts today, boo.

 

[vikingBerserker]

That will be because they made it look too French .

Nice!

 

[carson1934]

That will be because they made it look too French

Great pic Carson, only wish I'd seen it sooner, now I'm over my pig flu I'm back at work, hence the no posts today, boo.

Thanks Waynos!
btw there is an important PM for you please check it
carson

I sent you a new PM on same subject a few minutes ago