Aircraft With Contrarotating Props

[siznaudin]

MISS ASHLEY II


P51 with Learjet Wings Tail-plane

You might find I posted the Mk21 with Contra-props before 8)

If ayone noticed or cared

BTW: The List is growing Compadre

Do please correct me if I'm not up to your level of knowledge, but I am under the belief that "your" earlier posted Mk 21 with contra-props is the same aircraft I have referred to above: ie it is (I believe) a Mk 19. Not a Mk 21. And yes, Comwell, it is good to find an aviation forum where people do notice and care.

 

[carson1934]

Here is a rare one for you I saw this weekend

Hi Comiso90
Three most beautiful pictures of the Convair XFY "Pogo". I'll save them and keep them preciously!
Thanks a million
carson1934
Sorry Comiso for my mistake: this is the Lockheed XFV1 SalmonThanks again for the wonderful pics, very cool!

Do please correct me if I'm not up to your level of knowledge, but I am under the belief that "your" earlier posted Mk 21 with contra-props is the same aircraft I have referred to above: ie it is (I believe) a Mk 19. Not a Mk 21. And yes, Comwell, it is good to find an aviation forum where people do notice and care.

Hi Siznaudin,
thanks for your continued interest and passion in this thread.
Concerning the Spitfire with Griffon engine and contrarotating props as per post #53 it must be a MK.19. The Spitfire of the second picture in colour of the same post is just an expensive toy (I wouldn't say a B/S).
I came to the conclusion of a Mark 19 after looking at dozens of pictures of this very same aircraft
carson1934

 

[comiso90]

You Welcome carson... I actually thought of this thread when I saw the plane... I didnt know it was there. I often dont research a museum before I go... I like to be surprised!..

I like the air intakes... side and bottom

.

 

[siznaudin]

Hi Carson, yes .. with a bit of Googling it can be determined that the current contra-prop "Mk 21" is in fact the ex Singapore ex Steve Hinton Mk19 into which he adapted an ex Shackleton Griffon. Flew after that in 2002, I think - and subsequently went to France. Yes - the B/S jibe is a bit tongue-in-cheek ... I absolutely agree that it is a very nice "toy" !

Nice clip of it here ...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE8oyqJ5K1k

 

[carson1934]

Hi Carson, yes .. with a bit of Googling it can be determined that the current contra-prop "Mk 21" is in fact the ex Singapore ex Steve Hinton Mk19 into which he adapted an ex Shackleton Griffon. Flew after that in 2002, I think - and subsequently went to France. Yes - the B/S jibe is a bit tongue-in-cheek ... I absolutely agree that it is a very nice "toy" !

Nice clip of it here ...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE8oyqJ5K1k

Thanks very much indeed Siznaudin a very enjoyable video clip....
carson1934

 

[carson1934]

I apologize to all concerning if I am delaying editing my up-to-date listing of aircrafts with contrarotating props.
Reason is that I discovered a few more aircrafts I didn't know about (and this took quite a bit of searching)
besides I'm still waiting for confirmation from an outside source about one particular U.S.A model...But this won't take much longer I hope
Cheers to everybody
carson1934

 

[Waynos]

There never really was a Tempest III beyond the drawing board. LA610 was not merely redesignated Fury, it was redesigned and the components from the partially constructed Tempest III prototype (which was to have been LA610) were used to speed it along, keeping the same reggie. allocating ther name Tempest III to any photo showing a complete aircraft is therefore a fallacy.

 

[Waynos]

Hi Siznaudin,
thanks for your continued interest and passion in this thread.
Concerning the Spitfire with Griffon engine and contrarotating props as per post #53 it must be a MK.19. The Spitfire of the second picture in colour of the same post is just an expensive toy (I wouldn't say a B/S).
I came to the conclusion of a Mark 19 after looking at dozens of pictures of this very same aircraft
carson1934

Yes Carson, the one in the colour shot is a converted Mk.XIX, however the black and white photo in the same post is an F.21, the XIX never carried guns while this one is clearly sporting 4 20mm cannon.

Here are some more pics to give you a more complete view of the 'Contra-Spits'

Top is a Spitfire IX converted with contra-prop and MkXIV tail, a unique conversion in 1943.

Second is one of very few genuine Mk XIV's converted with contraprops in 1944

Then you have the F.21 and below that an F.22. All genuine contra-prop Spitfires converted by Supermarine for official evaluation.

 

[Waynos]

Sorry to hog the thread but have ypu got this one Carson? The Tupolev Tu-91

 

[carson1934]

Yes Carson, the one in the colour shot is a converted Mk.XIX, however the black and white photo in the same post is an F.21, the XIX never carried guns while this one is clearly sporting 4 20mm cannon.

Here are some more pics to give you a more complete view of the 'Contra-Spits'

Top is a Spitfire IX converted with contra-prop and MkXIV tail, a unique conversion in 1943.

Second is one of very few genuine Mk XIV's converted with contraprops in 1944

Then you have the F.21 and below that an F.22. All genuine contra-prop Spitfires converted by Supermarine for official evaluation.

Thanks Waynos your pics are priceless for the purpose I require them for and your comments are chrystal-clear.
Obviously all of them are going to be reflected in the listing I'm working out
Cheers
carson1934

 

[carson1934]

There never really was a Tempest III beyond the drawing board. LA610 was not merely redesignated Fury, it was redesigned and the components from the partially constructed Tempest III prototype (which was to have been LA610) were used to speed it along, keeping the same reggie. allocating ther name Tempest III to any photo showing a complete aircraft is therefore a fallacy.

Sorry Waynos I'm not sure how to interpret your comments.
How would you call then LA/610 a redesigned Hawker Fury?Or a Hawker MkI "Fury" (reg.LA/610)?
Kindly let me know your views
carson1934

You'll see on top line the image of Hawker Fury Mk.I (LA610) as copied from www.1000aircraft.photos

 

[carson1934]

Sorry to hog the thread but have ypu got this one Carson? The Tupolev Tu-91

Thanks again Waynos.
Yes I have already included the TU/91 "Veechock" in my list.
Cheers
carson1934

 

[Waynos]

You're welcome Carson.

Regarding LA610.

It was ordered as one of two Tempest prototypes that were to fly as the Tempest III, powered by the Griffon IIB engine and then be converted to the Tempest IV with the Griffon 61. In the event this requirement was dropped and all Tempest work concentrated on the Sabre and Centaurus powered models.

LA610 was then built instead as a Fury prototype (note 'built as', not 'converted into' as some would have it) and during its life it flew with Centaurus, Sabre and Griffon power leading some to call it the 'Tempest III' when pictured fitted with the Griffon 85 and contraprop, which is incorrect. Neither the Griffon 85 nor the contrprop were ever part of the Tempest III/IV effort. The Fury is substantially different, structurally, from the Tempest and when it was powered by the Griffon it was known only as the 'Griffon Fury' and then only unofficially. It was used purely as a trials aircraft with these different installations and when fitted with the Napier Sabre, as pictured below, was the fastest, and probably best looking, piston fighter Hawker ever built.

 

[Waynos]

Here's one I haven't seen mentioned Carson. Its the Sud Ouest SO 8000 Narval naval fighter. Apologoes if its been done.

 

[carson1934]

Here's one I haven't seen mentioned Carson. Its the Sud Ouest SO 8000 Narval naval fighter. Apologoes if its been done.

Thanks Watnos.
Yes the Narval has been includedin my forthcoming list.
Cheers
carson1934

 

[carson1934]

You're welcome Carson.

Regarding LA610.

It was ordered as one of two Tempest prototypes that were to fly as the Tempest III, powered by the Griffon IIB engine and then be converted to the Tempest IV with the Griffon 61. In the event this requirement was dropped and all Tempest work concentrated on the Sabre and Centaurus powered models.

LA610 was then built instead as a Fury prototype (note 'built as', not 'converted into' as some would have it) and during its life it flew with Centaurus, Sabre and Griffon power leading some to call it the 'Tempest III' when pictured fitted with the Griffon 85 and contraprop, which is incorrect. Neither the Griffon 85 nor the contrprop were ever part of the Tempest III/IV effort. The Fury is substantially different, structurally, from the Tempest and when it was powered by the Griffon it was known only as the 'Griffon Fury' and then only unofficially. It was used purely as a trials aircraft with these different installations and when fitted with the Napier Sabre, as pictured below, was the fastest, and probably best looking, piston fighter Hawker ever built.

Thanks very much indeed Waynos for your informative and interesting comments.
A latin motto is in your case more than appropriate.
Tanto nomini nullum par elogium
Therefore I'm inferring that it is correct to designate the picture of the A/C of my post #71 as Hawker Fury prototype with Griffon 85 (LA/610).
In other words nothing to do with the Tempest
Cheers
carson1934

 

[Waynos]

That would be a 'yes' Carson

BTW are you looking only for aircraft that flew with contraprops or also projects that were meant to have them?

Would you also include the MD-90 and Yak 42 propfan testbeds as these also flew with contra rotating propellors?

 

[carson1934]

That would be a 'yes' Carson

BTW are you looking only for aircraft that flew with contraprops or also projects that were meant to have them?

Would you also include the MD-90 and Yak 42 propfan testbeds as these also flew with contra rotating propellors?

Hi Waynos
basically I mean to include in my listing only aircrafts that actually flew with contraprops (no unflown projects or paper planes but yes to mock-ups).
I'll google through today and investigate whether the planes you mentioned are eligible for being included.
Cheers
carson1934

 

[carson1934]

Hi Waynos
basically I mean to include in my listing only aircrafts that actually flew with contraprops (no unflown projects or paper planes but yes to mock-ups).
I'll google through today and investigate whether the planes you mentioned are eligible for being included.
Cheers
carson1934

Hi again Waynos,
I found on the web plenty of information about the YAK/42/LL (reg. RA42525) a flying testbed of the D-236
turboprop engine apparently mounted on the starboard side only which was shown at the air show in Paris in 1991. This one might just be eligible.
Alas I found no pics.
No information found sofar on the MD/90 with similar engine set-up.
carson1934

 

[Waynos]

I found one or two Carson but I only have this scan for the Yak, then their is the MD-90 and below them is the 727 with propfan too. I also believe the the Il-76 flew with it