Aircraft With Contrarotating Props

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Waynos said:
I have another for you, the Fairey Firefly IV, a one off demonstrator that proved the benefit of comntra props to naval aircraft and was offered as an option for future sale but never taken up. the caption for the photo is below the other text, which does not relate to the picture.

10-1.jpg
Click to expand...

I'll join Graeme by saying beautiful picture!
This will find way for sure in my list: if I'm not asking too much,do you have any clue when this demonstration took place?
carson1934:signwow:
 
Yes Carson, it was the 1947 SBAC show at Radlett, the last one before it moved to Farnborough.
 
OK, got a few photographs of pages from a couple books for you. First 3 are from 'War Planes of the Second World War - Fighters -Volume 2' by William Green.

NC379.jpg


...mentions some Spitfire 22s had the Griffon 85 in place of the 61 or 64.

NC380.jpg


...mentions 2 Spitefuls (VB893 and VB895) were built as Seafangs with the Griffon 85 and folding wing tips (see later photo). The Seafang 31 didn't have the folding wings and 'was little more than a "hooked Spiteful".'.

NC381.jpg


...mentions the Spiteful XV as having the Griffon 85 like the Seafang 32.
 
The next 7 are from 'Spitfire' by Alfred Price.

NC382.jpg


...shows Spitfire JF321 which started as an VIII and became a pre-production XIV and at one point was fitted with a contra Griffon.

NC383.jpg


...shows one of the Spitfire 21s.

NC384.jpg


Here we have Spitfire TM379 at the upper right. TM379 started as a Spitfire 21 and became the prototype for the Seafire 45. At the lower left we see a later photo of TM379 with a Griffon 85 installed.

NC385.jpg


shows various Seafire 46s and 47s.

NC386.jpg


various Seafire 47s.

NC387.jpg


more Seafire 47s.

NC388.jpg


Seafang 32 VB895. Says here this is the 'sole' Seafang 32. What happened to VB893 mentioned previously?


More confused or less confused? : )
 
I think you have misinterpreted the text a little. VB893 and VB895 were ordered as Seafang prototypes, not Spitefuls, but happed to be the only fully navalized F.32 aircraft to be built. The earlier Seafang F.31, without contraprop or folding wings being 'hooked Spiteful's' as you say.

I posted a photo of a contraprop Spit F.22 earlier in the thread, along with a IX, XIV and F.21. The only doubt I have about the Spiteful XV is whether one was actually built and/or flown. I have seen several references to the spec of it, but not to the existance of it, which is most odd.

shows Spitfire JF321 which started as an VIII and became a pre-production XIV and at one point was fitted with a contra Griffon.
Click to expand...

This conversion is a different one to the XIV I posted which was a 'proper' XIV,rather than a converted earlier mark. note the modified fin on yours which is the same as used on the floatplane Spitfires, I wonder if this predates the converted Mk IX I posted, as that one used a standard XIV tail?

It loks as though the Alfred Price book you scanned is a different one from 'The Spitfire Story' which I was using. Hmmmm, can't have too many Spitfire books, time to go looking :)
 
Last edited:
AMCKen said:
The next 7 are from 'Spitfire' by Alfred Price.

NC382.jpg


...shows Spitfire JF321 which started as an VIII and became a pre-production XIV and at one point was fitted with a contra Griffon.

NC383.jpg


...shows one of the Spitfire 21s.

NC384.jpg


Here we have Spitfire TM379 at the upper right. TM379 started as a Spitfire 21 and became the prototype for the Seafire 45. At the lower left we see a later photo of TM379 with a Griffon 85 installed.

NC385.jpg


shows various Seafire 46s and 47s.

NC386.jpg


various Seafire 47s.

NC387.jpg


more Seafire 47s.

NC388.jpg


Seafang 32 VB895. Says here this is the 'sole' Seafang 32. What happened to VB893 mentioned previously?


More confused or less confused? : )
Click to expand...

Hi AMCKen,
it took me two hours of precious sleep to synthesize your above post (just joking, it was perfectly made and believe it or not very clear)!
Therefore this is the conclusive synthesis extracted from the above article (bearing in mind that onlyaircrafts with contras are interesting for us):

- Document 1
Spitfire Mk.XIV (ex Spitfire VIII) (JF321), 6 built, 1943, with CR props and Griffon
- Document 2
close-up of contra-rotating props of Mk.21
- Document 3
Seafire FR Mk.45 (ex Spitfire 21) (TM/379with CR props and Griffon 85
- Document 4
Several shots of Seafire F.Mk.47
- Document 5
Seafang F.Mk.32 (VB/895) with CR props and Griffon 89 engine
Out of it came a very nice file with interesting pics.
That's all for today, I'll see you again tomorrow
carson1934
PS I didn't study yet Waynos post, I'll try to do it tomorrow
:sleepy5:
 
It looks as though the Alfred Price book you scanned is a different one from 'The Spitfire Story' which I was using. Hmmmm, can't have too many Spitfire books, time to go looking :)[/QUOTE]


The Alan Price book says 'This edition combines two books first published in 1974 and 1985 by Ian Allan Limited under the titles 'Spitfire at War' and 'Spitfire at War 2'. You may already have these.

Ken
 
AMCKen said:
Spitfire JF321 may have been the only XIV prototype that had contras so saying '6 built' may be in error.

Ken
Click to expand...

Yeah Ken the interpretation is doubtful to say the least. Author writes:
QUOTE
"JF321 one of the six Spitfire VIII which early in 1943 were re-engined etc."
UNQUOTE
However he also writes:
QUOTE
"as well as an enlarged fin this particular aircraft was fitted with contra-rotating propellers etc"
Therefore in order to be more realistic than the king I put a question mark in the tag besides "6 built"
Cheers
carson1934
 
AMCKen said:
Also, P-51s modified for racing should include the pioneer Red Baron RB-51.

Site Planes of Fame Museum :: View topic - Red Baron RB-51 Unlimited Racer Revisited has some history and nifty photos.

I was at Reno when it crashed after racing with the same engine it had used setting the 499mph record.


Miss Ashley II was the unfortunate Gary Levitz machine.

Seems to me the brothers Bill Don Whittington built one also. Lets see ... Ahh - here we go :

warbirdregistry.org - North American P-51 Mustang
Click to expand...

Hi AMCKen
wonderful pics of both racers, thanks for pointing them out to me. It goes without saying that I'll include both of them in my new listing which as already told will be edited end of July
Cheers
carson1934
 
I have that book but it never occurred to me to look in it. What a turnip!. I'll go scan it and stick it one here, Also ken, Thaniks to ebay I now have a copy of that Spitfire book winging its way to me, cheers! :)
 
Waynos said:
I have that book but it never occurred to me to look in it. What a turnip!. I'll go scan it and stick it one here, Also ken, Thaniks to ebay I now have a copy of that Spitfire book winging its way to me, cheers! :)
Click to expand...

One question Waynos: what's the meaning of "turnip" in your context: I know it is an edible root (in italian rapa but no more than that:
Can you explain? I love learning new idioms...
carson1934
 
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