"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (7 Viewers)

[ThomasP]

The HARM should work very well against the jammers it they are within practical attack range. Although the GPS jamming systems may be equipped with serious 'spoofing' (one example is signal switching) capability it they are set up properly.

The only GPS signal emitters (as far as I know) are either the GPS satellites or GPS jammers. As such, friendly GPS receiver devices/systems should not be vulnerable to attack by the ARM. The later AGM-88 HARMs are capable of being programmed to not engage outside of various sections of space - air and/or ground. There might be a possibility of the HARM picking up on the weak secondary reflection signal from large GPS ground station receiver antennae (maybe, IDK) at very short range, but the programming of the HARMs should prevent attack if the reflected signals are too weak or are not in the allowed attack sector. So unless the Ukrainians are also jamming GPS signals there should be no problem with homing on friendly GPS guidance systems.

However, the GPS signals are in the NATO D-band (from 1-2 GHz) which covers the upper part of the 'old' L-band (390 MHz - 1.55 GHz) and the lower part of the 'old' S-band (1.55 - 3.9 GHz). Both of these bands are still used by various radars, particularly the S-band. But there is no more reason to worry about the HARM homing on a friendly emitter than when targeting enemy radar emitters in the L & S-bands.

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Can the Ukrainian Air Force's Fencers armed with AGM-45 Shrike take these out? Can its sensors locate GPS jammers?

Is this missile useful at all for Ukraine?

AGM-88 HARM: 'Ineffective' In Ukraine War, US Navy To Acquire Converted Anti-Radiation Missiles For Aerial Targets

The US Navy will acquire dozens of new high-speed aerial targets converted from outdated AGM-88 High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missiles or HARM

eurasiantimes.com

I will take Eurasian Times with a grain of salt. Not all, but quite a few authors have a pro-Russian bias and take RuMoD claims for granted.
The one you posted bases AGM-88 inefficiency on this sentence.
"AGM-88 HARMs haven't been particularly effective based on the consistency with which RuMoD claims to be shooting the missile down."

That does not mean EurassianTimes is not a good source, but needs some extra filtering.

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Source: Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Visually confirmed artillery loses for last month, it's much less that Ukrainian claims, but trend is the same.

 

[Escuadrilla Azul]

Visually confirmed artillery loses for last month, it's much less that Ukrainian claims, but trend is the same.

View attachment 728705

Those are daily loses or acumulative?

 

[Admiral Beez]

A good vid on Ukraine's unity and strength.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ts4JS2NVtqs

 

[RogerdeLluria]

You may remember that at the start of the war the rouble crumpled to historic record lows just to recover by April 2022.

View attachment 728361

Reasons: Russia had stocked reserves to cover for western reaction. Plus the sudden drop of imports artificially inflated the ruble. In addition it became an intervened currency with litle to no international trade, so its official trade value didn't reflect its real value.

However things changed in 2023: Probably Putin's reserves are gone, plus it seems oil price cap made its impact. . This is how rouble looks now:

View attachment 728362

And it fares even worse against euro:

View attachment 728363

Interesting that just after I posted about Rouble, Financial Times finds the topic interesting too.

Russian rouble hits 15-month low after Wagner mutiny | Financial Times

archived 6 Jul 2023 19:23:37 UTC

archive.ph

 

[buffnut453]

The HARM should work very well against the jammers it they are within practical attack range. Although the GPS jamming systems may be equipped with serious 'spoofing' (one example is signal switching) capability it they are set up properly.

The only GPS signal emitters (as far as I know) are either the GPS satellites or GPS jammers. As such, friendly GPS receiver devices/systems should not be vulnerable to attack by the ARM. The later AGM-88 HARMs are capable of being programmed to not engage outside of various sections of space - air and/or ground. There might be a possibility of the HARM picking up on the weak secondary reflection signal from large GPS ground station receiver antennae (maybe, IDK) at very short range, but the programming of the HARMs should prevent attack if the reflected signals are too weak or are not in the allowed attack sector. So unless the Ukrainians are also jamming GPS signals there should be no problem with homing on friendly GPS guidance systems.

However, the GPS signals are in the NATO D-band (from 1-2 GHz) which covers the upper part of the 'old' L-band (390 MHz - 1.55 GHz) and the lower part of the 'old' S-band (1.55 - 3.9 GHz). Both of these bands are still used by various radars, particularly the S-band. But there is no more reason to worry about the HARM homing on a friendly emitter than when targeting enemy radar emitters in the L & S-bands.

My comment was looking more broadly at the concept of ARMs attacking jammers and not just the GPS jamming problem. The Russians are jamming all sorts of signals, the vast majority of which do have friendly transmitters operating on the same frequencies. Thus fratricide does need to be considered. You can blank off regions in some systems (not sure if ALARM could do this...and ALARM was the genesis of this minor thread diversion) but that only works if friendly forces are not closely engaged with the adversary. If the opposing forces are close together then fratricide risk becomes very real.

The issue of the ARM homing on the antenna and leaving the jamming transmitter undamaged remains a concern. From a target vulnerability perspective, the R-330Zh's antenna is a markedly different proposition, being much smaller and thus potentially harder to destroy, when compared to the systems most ARMs are designed to engage (e.g. fire control radars for SAMs).

 

[Admiral Beez]

Biden Weighs Giving Ukraine Weapons Banned by Many U.S. Allies (Published 2023)

Ukraine is seeking cluster munitions, which are known to cause grievous injuries to civilians, as its ammunition supply runs low.

www.nytimes.com

I don't see the controversy on Ukraine using cluster munitions within Ukraine's own borders. If Zelenskyy uses the weapons it will be Zelenskyy and his successors who owns the clean up. Sounds fair to me.

 

[Denniss]

Especially if the Ruzzians use them anyway so postwar cleanup is the same

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Those are daily loses or acumulative?

Looks like cumulative.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration will provide cluster munitions to Ukraine, national security adviser Jake Sullivan said Friday, vowing the U.S. will not leave Ukraine defenseless and asserting that Kyiv has promised to use the controversial weapons carefully.

The decision comes on the eve of the NATO summit in Lithuania, where President Joe Biden is likely to face questions from allies on why the U.S. would send a weapon into Ukraine that more than two-thirds of alliance members have banned because it has a track record for causing many civilian casualties. And it was met with divided reactions from Congress, as some Democrats criticized the plan while a Republican backed it.

The munitions — which are bombs that open in the air and release scores of smaller bomblets — are seen by the U.S. as a way to get Kyiv critically needed ammunition to help bolster its offensive and push through Russian front lines. U.S. leaders debated the thorny issue for months, before Biden made the final decision this week.

The US will provide cluster bombs to Ukraine and defends the delivery of the controversial weapon

President Joe Biden has decided to provide cluster munitions to Ukraine for the war against Russia, even though the United Nations urges the warring countries to avoid using them.

apnews.com

 

[Frog]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration will provide cluster munitions to Ukraine, national security adviser Jake Sullivan said Friday, vowing the U.S. will not leave Ukraine defenseless and asserting that Kyiv has promised to use the controversial weapons carefully.

The decision comes on the eve of the NATO summit in Lithuania, where President Joe Biden is likely to face questions from allies on why the U.S. would send a weapon into Ukraine that more than two-thirds of alliance members have banned because it has a track record for causing many civilian casualties. And it was met with divided reactions from Congress, as some Democrats criticized the plan while a Republican backed it.

The munitions — which are bombs that open in the air and release scores of smaller bomblets — are seen by the U.S. as a way to get Kyiv critically needed ammunition to help bolster its offensive and push through Russian front lines. U.S. leaders debated the thorny issue for months, before Biden made the final decision this week.

The US will provide cluster bombs to Ukraine and defends the delivery of the controversial weapon

President Joe Biden has decided to provide cluster munitions to Ukraine for the war against Russia, even though the United Nations urges the warring countries to avoid using them.

apnews.com

A mixed blessing in my opinion. One thing is the Russians get the money of their coin, on the other end, the target is saturated of unexploded devices that will be difficult to decontaminate for the attacker once the objective is taken.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

A mixed blessing in my opinion. One thing is the Russians get the money of their coin, on the other end, the target is saturated of unexploded devices that will be difficult to decontaminate for the attacker once the objective is taken.

Right, and the further potential downside is that NATO countries which have forsworn cluster rounds may face internal opinions supporting Ukraine being eroded as the Ukrainians use these shells. I'm thinking particularly of Germany. And though Russia has already deployed them, further use will only make cleanup longer and costlier.

 

[buffnut453]

Right, and the further potential downside is that NATO countries which have forsworn it may face internal opinions supporting Ukraine being eroded as the Ukrainians use these shells.

But A Admiral Beez makes a very valid point on this topic. Ukraine will be using these weapons within their own territory. The risk for unexploded devices is against Ukraine's own people. Kyiv seems to think that the benefit is worth the risk.

Let's not get sidetracked by the rhetoric about cluster munitions being bad. Yes, they are and they do cause problems...but they've typically been used either in civil wars (Govt against its own people) or within hostile territory (e.g. JP233 during Desert Storm). This Ukraine situation is entirely different and it should, rightly IMHO, be for Kyiv to decide whether or not to use such weapons within their own legal territory.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

But A Admiral Beez makes a very valid point on this topic. Ukraine will be using these weapons within their own territory. The risk for unexploded devices is against Ukraine's own people. Kyiv seems to think that the benefit is worth the risk.

True, and it's their call. I'm simply looking at the pluses and minuses.

Let's not get sidetracked by the rhetoric about cluster munitions being bad. Yes, they are and they do cause problems...but they've typically been used either in civil wars (Govt against its own people) or within hostile territory (e.g. JP233 during Desert Storm). This Ukraine situation is entirely different and it should, rightly IMHO, be for Kyiv to decide whether or not to use such weapons within their own legal territory.

Yeah, I support Ukraine's decision on this whichever way they decide, which is exactly why I did not espouse a personal view.

 

[GTX]

Ukraine Update: Russia doesn't have a backup plan when it runs out of artillery

Joseph Stalin supposedly once called artillery “the God of War.” Regardless of the historicity of the comment, it gets at a certain truth about the Russian and Soviet armies since well before the time of Napoleon: Artillery has been, and continues to...

www.dailykos.com

 

[SplitRz]

A mixed blessing in my opinion. One thing is the Russians get the money of their coin, on the other end, the target is saturated of unexploded devices that will be difficult to decontaminate for the attacker once the objective is taken.

I think history will show that this was an unfortunate and counter-productive decision. And however its coloured stateside, the Russian propaganda machine will derive great benefit from it, given that pretty much the whole of Europe now regards their use as a borderline war-crime. What an opportunity to drive a wedge, eh?

Its certainly counter-productive when western commentators were reporting critically on the on alleged Russian cluster munition usage back in '22. Cluster munition use in Kharkiv . Its an unwelcome escalation.

Right, and the further potential downside is that NATO countries which have forsworn cluster rounds may face internal opinions supporting Ukraine being eroded as the Ukrainians use these shells. I'm thinking particularly of Germany. And though Russia has already deployed them, further use will only make cleanup longer and costlier.

I totally agree. Whatever our personal opinions are on the subject, millions of people across Europe have been in support of Ukraine. Moves like this can chip away at the public support which has, to date, swallowed soaring energy costs, increased military spending etc as a worth-while cost. For an American administration that also says it wants Europe to shoulder its military responsibilities, its not a clever move IMHO.

 

[Admiral Beez]

True, and it's their call. I'm simply looking at the pluses and minuses.

The big plus will be the ability to clear Russian fortifications hidden in tree lines. Currently the only way to clear them now is for the Ukrainians to drive up in IFVs under cover of artillery, dismount and fight at close quarters from dugout to dugout. With 155mm cluster shells the process should be much safer, with drones finding the Russian dugouts and artillery wiping out larger swaths of tree line with a few cluster bomb shells, with the benefit that Russian mines and IEDs can be detonated as well. After that the AFU infantry need just walk up, destroy any surviving forces and move forward.

 

[Warspite63]

Ukraine Update: Russia doesn't have a backup plan when it runs out of artillery

Joseph Stalin supposedly once called artillery “the God of War.” Regardless of the historicity of the comment, it gets at a certain truth about the Russian and Soviet armies since well before the time of Napoleon: Artillery has been, and continues to...

www.dailykos.com

That's an excellent article!