"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter XBe02Drvr
- Start date
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Pocket variant :
Russia is difficult.
buffnut453
Captain
Even more compact
Russia
Russia
Admiral Beez
Major
Is potatoEven more compact
Russia
Admiral Beez
Major
The world would be a better place without Russia, Iran and North Korea. Take out these three idiot regimes and we can find working ground with China and carry on with our lives. Even more so once we don't need the Arabs for their oil and the Middle East can return to irrelevancy.
special ed
1st Sergeant
- 5,205
- May 13, 2018
"We are two peoples separated by a common language."
Churchill
Churchill
buffnut453
Captain
Ok...back on topic. This is gonna hurt. Russia has raised interest rates from 8.5% to 12% in one jump:
www.bbc.com
The move was an attempt to curb inflation but, with demand outstripping production capacity for many goods (largely driven by Western sanctions), it's unclear whether the interest rate jump will succeed in its objectives. The weakening rouble coupled with persistent high inflation could present major issues for the average Ivan on the streets...and that has to be seen as a threat by the Kremlin.
Russia hikes interest rates to 12% as rouble falls
The Bank of Russia raises rates sharply in an attempt to boost the currency and lower inflation.
www.bbc.com
The move was an attempt to curb inflation but, with demand outstripping production capacity for many goods (largely driven by Western sanctions), it's unclear whether the interest rate jump will succeed in its objectives. The weakening rouble coupled with persistent high inflation could present major issues for the average Ivan on the streets...and that has to be seen as a threat by the Kremlin.
Meanwhile…economic warfare. A strategic strike! This might bring Russia to the table faster than anything...or it may not!
Thumpalumpacus
Major
LVIV, Ukraine, Aug 15 (Reuters) - Russian air strikes hit two western regions of Ukraine bordering NATO member Poland and other areas on Tuesday, killing three people in a factory and wounding more than a dozen, Ukrainian officials said.
Local media said the attacks were the largest air assault on the Lviv region since the Russian invasion in February 2022.
The fatalities were reported in the northwestern region of Volyn. Officials said an industrial enterprise in the regional capital Lutsk was struck in the overnight attack. Several people were also hospitalised, Governor Yuriy Pohulyaiko said.
Swedish industrial bearings maker SKF said its factory in Lutsk was hit by a missile overnight, killing three employees.
Footage released by Ukraine's state emergency service showed rescuers pulling a man from the rubble. Reuters was able to confirm the location as the SKF factory.
Fifteen people were also wounded in the Lviv region, Governor Maksym Kozytskyi said. Six missiles damaged dozens of buildings and a kindergarten playground in and around the regional capital. Kozytskyi said the youngest victim was 10 years-old.
Wave of Russian air strikes hits western Ukraine, far from front lines
Russian air strikes hit two western regions of Ukraine bordering NATO member Poland and other areas on Tuesday, killing three people in a factory and wounding more than a dozen, Ukrainian officials said.
Also:
WASHINGTON, Aug 14 (Reuters) - The United States said on Monday it will send Ukraine new security assistance valued at $200 million, including air defense munitions, artillery rounds, and additional mine-clearing equipment.
The assistance will also include anti-armor capabilities, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in a statement.
Two U.S. officials told Reuters last Monday that Washington would begin to dole out $6.2 billion of funds discovered after a Pentagon accounting error that overvalued billions of dollars of Ukraine aid.
In May, the Pentagon announced it had mistakenly assigned a higher-than-warranted value to the U.S. weaponry shipped to Kyiv when staff used "replacement value" instead of "depreciated value" to tabulate the billions' worth of ammunition, missiles and other equipment sent to Ukraine.
Ukraine needs weaponry that can be shipped from U.S. stocks in a matter of days or weeks so it can continue to repel Russia's invasion. The accounting error works to Kyiv's benefit because more equipment can be sent.
US to send Ukraine new security aid worth $200 million
The United States said on Monday it will send Ukraine new security assistance valued at $200 million, including air defense munitions, artillery rounds, and additional mine-clearing equipment.
Warspite63
Senior Airman
- 388
- Dec 8, 2022
And in related news: Suspected spies for Russia held in major UK security investigation
Admiral Beez
Major
If I was in charge of the UK I would pull an Idi Amin and tell every Russian citizen that they have 90 days to depart the UK. I am amazed the Georgians haven't expelled the lot.
An older article from the beginning of the war...
Britain could expel all Russian citizens from the UK, senior Conservative MP says
Tom Tugendhat has urged Boris Johnson to take a tougher stance against Putin.
And something more current from the Latvians...
Latvia Is Going on Offense Against Russian Culture
The Baltic nation is taking cultural cohesion into its own hands—and risking backlash.
foreignpolicy.com
Last edited:
Jabberwocky
Staff Sergeant
If I was in charge of the UK I would pull an Idi Amin and tell every Russian citizen that they have 90 days to depart the UK. I am amazed the Georgians haven't expelled the lot.
An older article from the beginning of the war...
Britain could expel all Russian citizens from the UK, senior Conservative MP says
Tom Tugendhat has urged Boris Johnson to take a tougher stance against Putin.uk.news.yahoo.com
And something more current from the Latvians...
Latvia Is Going on Offense Against Russian Culture
The Baltic nation is taking cultural cohesion into its own hands—and risking backlash.
I'd really not be happy with blanket deportations/bans on movement from a country that the UK is not at war with. That smacks of prejudice and the paranoia of the 1940s and 1950s. It brings to mind the shameful incidents of internment of "enemy aliens" in many Western nations in WW1 and WW2.
In Georgia's case, I'd be more sympathetic given Russia's defacto annexation of sections of Georgian territory. Even then though, it's probably not practically possible.
Russia and Georgia have a huge and open border and Georgia is very popular with Russian tourists (particularly the poorest sections of the population). It might also worsen an already pretty fractious relationship.
Admiral Beez
Major
Our own happiness or lack thereof may not have a role to play. Those impacted by Russians are taking a stand.
View: https://twitter.com/BadBalticTakes/status/1691695395875750124?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1691695395875750124%7Ctwgr%5Eb55bdc0c7244d86f7c3d18f60acd1c8bab24af88%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Furbantoronto.ca%2Fforum%2Fthreads%2F2022-23-russian-ukrainian-war.33393%2Fpage-173
buffnut453
Captain
Like J Jabberwocky I'm not a fan of indiscriminate deportations. Firstly, there's the presumption of innocence that's the rule of law and if we throw out the rule of law, how can we possibly hold the moral high ground?
Secondly, I'd be really uncomfortable deporting individuals or families who have been vocal opponents of the Putin regime, and whose lives will likely be at risk if they're sent back to Russia.
A jingoistic "all Russians are bad" approach won't help rebuilding efforts if/when Russia comes to its senses and re-integrates with the international community. Punishing innocent civilians is immoral, IMHO. I'm reminded of Buster Kilrain's speech from Killer Angels/Gettysburg:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HTLq8ZNsM
buffnut453
Captain
This isn't a surprise:
Ukrainian prisoners of war say they were tortured at Russian prison
Former prisoners of war tell the BBC they were abused by Russian guards inside a detention facility.
www.bbc.com
Admiral Beez
Major
We hold the moral high ground for our own citizens. Everyone else is a transient visitor who remains in our countries at the will of the citizens. Watching all those Russians who seemingly ignored their nation's invasion of Ukraine only to flee to their freedom-embracing neighbours once conscription was called makes me a little skeptical of any morals. But I see your and J Jabberwocky point, and we don't need pogroms against Russians. I think the Latvians are doing it right, essentially applying a test against every Russian in the country - those that pass are welcome to remain.
buffnut453
Captain
The rule of law within a nation applies to all people within that nation, whether they are citizens, residents or visitors. Transient visitors may remain in a country if it is legal for them to do so. Suggesting that the "will of the people" (whatever that means) is the deciding factor can lead to mobocracy which is not the rule of law.
Around half the total of emigrants came after the conscription law change. However, it's dangerous to assume that was the only factor. Russian emigration in 2022 broadly divides into 3 waves. The first happened immediately after the invasion and included vocal Putin opponents, journalists and IT workers (according to the Russian IT trade group, the latter numbered 50,000-70,000...which is probably an underestimate). The second wave were largely professional people who had to put affairs in order before leaving (e.g. transitioning businesses that they owned to other individuals/entities). The third wave came after the expansion of conscription but it's not clear how many of this latter group left solely to avoid the draft. It's likely the third group also included political opponents and more IT workers.
Agree entirely with your points here. If the Russian citizens are here legally and are fulfilling their side of the legal residency contract, then let them stay. If they're engaged in anything illegal, then boot them back to Russia.
Admiral Beez
Major
The Latvians aren't just looking for illegal activity. Russians who want to stay must pass Latvian language and cultural (whatever that means) tests. What the Latvians do not want is groups of unassimilated Russians building a separate community amongst them. That's the issue that Georgia, Moldova and pre-2022 Ukraine faced, not so much foreign invasion from Russia, but ethnic Russians amongst their own citizenry building dissent and separatist ideas. It was these feelings that Russia exploited as it supported the ethnic-Russian separatist breakaways of Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Crimea and parts of the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts. This is what the Baltic Republics fear, takeover by Russians through a thousand cuts, unnoticed until it's too late, when a sizeable ethnic-Russian population among their populations declares they're being persecuted and calls on Moscow for "protection". If it wasn't for NATO membership, all three of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania would already be on Putin's takeover list through this very method.
I expect as part of a nationwide Ukrainianization of the country, when this war is over that any Ukrainians who identify as ethnic Russians or pro-Russia will be marched to the border and expelled. It will be akin to the end of WW2 where in France those French who collaborated with the Germans face dire choices and consequences.
buffnut453
Captain
Germany takes a very similar approach for all immigrants, particularly illegal immigrants coming from Africa. There's a 5-step process that progresses assimilation through to full German citizenship. That kind of approach works for people who intend to stay in their adoptive nation. Since we don't know if/when Russia will become a safe place to return to, it makes some sense for emigrants to assimilate into their adoptive nations.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
ISTANBUL, Aug 16 (Reuters) - Russia's raid on a ship just off Turkey's coast brings the fallout from the Ukraine war to another NATO frontier and raises the stakes as Ankara seeks to coax Moscow back to a grain-export deal that would restore some calm to the Black Sea.
Armed marines raided the Turkish-based vessel via helicopter on Sunday some 60 km (37 miles) off Turkey's northwest coast, in international waters but near Istanbul, in what Moscow called an inspection before it sailed on to Ukraine.
Turkey, NATO's second-largest military, has made no public comment on the incident that occurred far south of the war that has raged for a year-and-a-half in the north Black Sea.
Analysts said it tests President Tayyip Erdogan's resolve to maintain good relations with Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom he has invited to Turkey this month to discuss resuming the UN-brokered deal that had protected grain exports from Ukraine.
"This type of aggression being exercised so close to Istanbul went unchecked and doesn't respect Turkey's overall rights," said Yoruk Isik, an Istanbul-based geopolitical analyst at the Bosphorus Observer consultancy.
"Ankara's silence is strange but shows it is still counting on Putin to visit and return to the grain deal."
Russian raid off Turkey's coast tests Erdogan's resolve
Russia's raid on a ship just off Turkey's coast brings the fallout from the Ukraine war to another NATO frontier and raises the stakes as Ankara seeks to coax Moscow back to a grain-export deal that would restore some calm to the Black Sea.
