"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (1 Viewer)

[Dimlee]

I'm wondering how many of those "Russian separatists" still prefer Russia over Ukraine. Not the ones imported by Putin.

We will never know. Future historians will try to estimate, probably.
Just for info. The last professional independent social surveys in the first half of 2013 have indicated that just about 30% of the population in Crimea wanted unification with Russian Federation. Percentage in the East of Ukraine was similar. I mention the first half of the year because Kremlin started a massive propaganda campaign in the summer of 2013, which was actually a preparation phase for the invasions of 2014.

 

[GrauGeist]

From this day, two years ago, regarding Crimea.

Crimea: Six years after illegal annexation | Brookings

Six years after Russia illegally annexed Crimea, Ukraine lacks the leverage to restore sovereignty over the region, but the West should not accept it since doing so would only encourage Russia to believe it can get away with annexing territory from other countries.

www.brookings.edu

 

[Airframes]

Putin only wants peace.
A Piece of Ukraine, a piece of Crimea, a piece of Latvia, Lithuania, and maybe a piece of Poland, Czech republic etc etc.........
With apologies to the movie "The Producers" ................

 

[Dimlee]

One of the rare public comments from the Ukrainian military about the state of air defence.
It's more about the alarm system but there are some other tidbits:
- It is recognised that the radar system was de-facto destroyed on the first day of the invasion. It was restored, but only partly.
- It is said that only 10% of Russian missiles are shot down. What is not clear, did they mean all missiles including ballistic Iskanders?
- Cruise missiles launched from the Black Sea were especially difficult to detect since they were flying very low over the Dniester river.
In Ukrainian:

Як пÑаÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð²ÑÑÑÑна ÑÑивога â поÑÑнÑÑÑÑ ÐовÑÑÑÑÐ½Ñ Ñили ÐСУÂ

Ðа 22 Ð´Ð½Ñ Ð²Ñйни в УкÑаÑнÑ, певно, не залиÑилоÑÑ Ð²ÐµÐ»Ð¸ÐºÐ¸Ñ Ð¼ÑÑÑ, де б не лÑнав Ñигнал повÑÑÑÑÐ½Ð¾Ñ ÑÑивоги. У ÑÑолиÑÑ Ð²Ñн вмикаÑÑÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾ 5-7 ÑазÑв на денÑ.

www.pravda.com.ua

 

[special ed]

I believe I mentioned they would want Alaska back up thread.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I believe I mentioned they would want Alaska back up thread.

Want in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up first.

The Russians seem to have both hands full in Ukraine anyway, this parliamentarian bluster aside.

 

[GrauGeist]

That idiot also mentioned claiming Antarctica as Russian, too.

They spotted it from afar, but they didn't step foot on it first.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I'll give all three guesses who said this…

They will not allowed into "the superior caste, the superior race"

 

[swampyankee]

Wonder if the Russian Navy will try and test Turkey's authority...

That could be considered an attack on a NATO member. Putin's navy could be improved into a number of artificial, albeit polluted, reefs.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

That could be considered an attack on a NATO member. Putin's navy could be improved into a number of artificial, albeit polluted, reefs.

Several years ago the Turks shot down a Russian fighter that went into their airspace. They will not mess around.

 

[swampyankee]

So when do they stop ceding territory? The next time Putin wants a chunk (and you know he will) just give him those too? How about the ethic Russians can go back to Russia if they would rather live under the thumb of a totalitarian quasi dictator.

Let me ask you, would you be ok with Quebec leaving Canada? They are practically ethnic French. Hell their official language is French.

Not being either Canadian or Québécois, I don't get a vote on that, but it's fundamentally different for Québec to leave Canada than for somebody to invade Canada to "liberate" the province.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not being either Canadian or Québécois, I don't get a vote on that, but it's fundamentally different for Québec to leave Canada than for somebody to invade Canada to "liberate" the province.

Agreed, but I am referring to the break away provinces in Ukraine that declared their independence before the invasion.

They are part of Russias justification for war. Putin says he is liberating and protecting them.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Putin says he is liberating a[nd] protecting them.

Hitler said just as much about protecting Germans in Sudetenland. Hitler wasn't trustworthy, and neither is Putin. We now know better and should do what steps we can to shut this down ASAP -- having history as a guide.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Let me ask you, would you be ok with Quebec leaving Canada? They are practically ethnic French. Hell their official language is French.

Just had to, LOL!

 

[JDCAVE]

I give them the benefit of the doubt for the 30s. They had just come out of WW1 and hind sight is always 20/20. Today we have no excuse though. We have Chamberlain to thank for teaching us what not to do.

I'm not giving them any befit of the doubt. None. Neither did Churchill. And the US position towards Nazi Germany was even more reprehensible, right up until Pearl Harbour.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hitler said just as much about protecting Germans in Sudetenland. Hitler wasn't trustworthy, and neither is Putin. We now know better and should do what steps we can to shut this down ASAP -- having history as a guide.

My wife's grandmother is from the Sudetenland. She has some crazy stories to tell. She was only 7 when she fled her home to get away from the advancing Russians. Heartbreaking stories to hear first hand.

*This post is not justifying what the Germans did, just further demonstrating how children suffer the most in war regardless of what country or side they were born into.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I'm not giving them any befit of the doubt. None. Neither did Churchill. And the US position towards Nazi Germany was even more reprehensible, right up until Pearl Harbour.

I'm specifically talking about the appeasement prior to WW2. Europe was still recovering from the horrors of WW1. Nobody wanted another costly war.

You and I have the benefit of hind sight, and the ability to objectively judge the actions taken. Had an entire generation of our sons been butchered in the trenches, we might be thinking this differently.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm not giving them any befit of the doubt. None. Neither did Churchill. And the US position towards Nazi Germany was even more reprehensible, right up until Pearl Harbour.

Given the fact that we were in an undeclared shooting war against the Germans before PH was attacked, I'm not sure how valid your complaint is. "Shoot on sight" was official American policy the last couple of months of 1941, and indeed one of the points Hitler cited in justifying his declaration of war on America on 11 Dec.

 

[buffnut453]

I'm specifically talking about the appeasement prior to WW2. Europe was still recovering from the horrors of WW1. Nobody wanted another costly war.

You and I have the benefit of hind sight, and the ability to objectively judge the actions taken. Had an entire genetation of our sons been butchered in the trenches, we might be thinking this differently.

The other factor is that, in 1938, Britain was in no fit state to go to war against Germany. At that time, Fighter Command comprised just 25 squadrons, most of which were still biplanes. At the time of the Battle of Britain, the RAF had 63 fighter squadrons, almost all equipped with Hurricanes and Spitfires. The speed with which Britain was re-arming in the late-1930s often gets forgotten. It was galloping to regain some sort of parity with Germany, and it was a race it barely won even with the outbreak of war in September 1939 when there were just 18 Hurricane squadrons in Fighter Command.

With a massively outnumbered, outperformed and outgunned fighter force, zero strategic bombers, and an outnumbered army, it's tough to see what Britain could have done to deter Hitler in 1938. It's particularly hard to see how Britain could have stopped Germany advancing into the Sudetenland. The only option would have been to band together with France and attack Germany...and that was not politically viable given the vivid memories of the Great War.

Chamberlain gets a lot of stick but he bought critical time for Britain to continue re-arming. It's also worth remembering that no other leader of a major power was doing anything more aggressive to deter Hitler. Lumping all the blame on Chamberlain's shoulders is unfair.

 

[SaparotRob]

The other factor is that, in 1938, Britain was in no fit state to go to war against Germany. At that time, Fighter Command comprised just 25 squadrons, most of which were still biplanes. At the time of the Battle of Britain, the RAF had 63 fighter squadrons, almost all equipped with Hurricanes and Spitfires. The speed with which Britain was re-arming in the late-1930s often gets forgotten. It was galloping to regain some sort of parity with Germany, and it was a race it barely won even with the outbreak of war in September 1939 when there were just 18 Hurricane squadrons in Fighter Command.

With a massively outnumbered, outperformed and outgunned fighter force, zero strategic bombers, and an outnumbered army, it's tough to see what Britain could have done to deter Hitler in 1938. It's particularly hard to see how Britain could have stopped Germany advancing into the Sudetenland. The only option would have been to band together with France and attack Germany...and that was not politically viable given the vivid memories of the Great War.

Chamberlain gets a lot of stick but he bought critical time for Britain to continue re-arming. It's also worth remembering that no other leader of a major power was doing anything more aggressive to deter Hitler. Lumping all the blame on Chamberlain's shoulders is unfair.

Aw c'mon, man! I was composing a similar post mentioning Sir Neville buying time. I was going to throw in Chain Home. I was even about to write "Sir Neville gets a lot of stick..."
Oh well, I'll add my uninformed thoughts.
Sir Neville Chamberlain gets a lot stick for being an appeaser. From various posts and links on some threads, I was made aware of PM Chamberlain's accomplishments.... aw, the heck with it. You guys brought it up before so I'm reminding you guys of what you made me aware of.
So there!