"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (21 Viewers)

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

How does Turkey prevent Russia from sending new warships into the Black Sea? Does the Montrose Convention have any teeth? Can Turkey physically chain off or block the entrance?

How many ships did the Brits lose trying to force the straits last century ... and do you think Turkey has weakened the defenses?

Trying to force the straits would be a major, combined operation.
 
How many ships did the Brits lose trying to force the straits last century ... and do you think Turkey has weakened the defenses? Trying to force the straits would be a major, combined operation.
Whatever the losses, Britain took Constantinople in 1918. And those were the Ottomans, with an empire of 24 million behind them. Today's Turks, forever noncommittal, unreliable, always slippery within NATO, always trying to play both sides of any confrontation, are a poor successor to the indomitable Ottomans. I'm not convinced that Ergoden would do anything to physically stop Russian warships from sailing up the Dardanelles, limiting any reaction to a diplomatic protest.
 

How is this pertinent to today's conditions? The Russian Navy is a pittance, modern technology means that the straits may be controlled from afar using PGMs and air-power, and while they aren't reliable allies, they surely won't give up the Convention, which is the only agreement -- and their control of the straits the only fact -- which makes them relevant.

It should be noted that the Brits didn't "take" Constantinople; they occupied it after the armistice, which is quite the different thing. The obvious implication is that the Russians would have to batter the Turks down to gain passage. I think they're pretty busy right now, as matters stand.
 
How is this pertinent to today's conditions?
It's not really, but you brought up the Ottomans and Royal Navy losses from over a century ago. I assumed it was a connection you were inferring, that today's Ottoman Turks would do the same to Putin's navy.

No matter, let's get back to the modern day. It looks like ATACMS may already be in Ukraine. This might suggest that the US feels confident that they have sufficient inventory for their needs in Taiwan and elsewhere.

 
Last edited:
If the Russian Navy tried to force their way into the Black Sea, Turkey, which has both straights well protected, would wreak havoc on their ships.

This would also create a situation, because Turkey is a NATO member, so trying to get past the straights by military force would see Russia run the risk of being on the receiving end of an Artical Five mobilization.
 
It's not really, but you brought up the Ottomans and Royal Navy losses from over a century ago. I assumed it was a connection you were inferring, that today's Ottoman Turks would do the same to Putin's navy.

I only brought that up to point out that even in 1915, this third-rate power could deny passage to the foremost navy in the world at the time. And how much easier might that be in an age of remote-control weapons.

Worrying about Russians forcing the Dardanelles is hand-wringing, it seems to me. They don't have the power to do so. Their plate is full already. Erdogan won't sell the only ace he has, and he has international law as well as simple power on his side.
 
big problem if the engine is not reliable. always having an ARV driving next to you is impossible. Smells like it requires a hull redesign to fit a better engine.
Or they copy proven western designs, I believe their spies know all about those engines.
 

Users who are viewing this thread