"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (2 Viewers)

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Wildcat said:
Ukraine is already using yak-52's for anti-drone ops.
Yak-52 Kill Marks Hint At Success In Ukraine's Drone War
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True but is it still in production? Where are the aircraft and engines made? How easy is it to get spares for the aircraft, its engine, prop, and all the other components

The homebuilts can be built by semi skilled persons in home workshops and splitting an Acro or Lazer into sections (wing, fuselage, tail group, powerplant and building them using separate teams in separate locations (Spitfire production style) would result in a very capable aircraft with similar characteristics to the Yak-50/52. Lycoming engines and their spares are easy to get as are all the other items that need maintenance like wheels, brakes, instruments, electrics (like starters and generators), etc, without having to get them from Russia or Russian supporting countries.

Plus the American engines use electric starters, not pneumatic starters, that are easy to repair and get spares parts for.
 
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Denniss said:
What about using smaller commercial helicopters to hunt them?
such as Bo 105 or french Alouette/Gazelle? or various ex-soviet ones?
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Turbine engined so large heat signature for the Russians to lock on to. Also far larger than the homebuilts and the Yak-50/52 so a much larger radar signature.
 
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MiTasol said:
True but is it still in production? Where are the aircraft and engines made? How easy is it to get spares for the aircraft, its engine, prop, and all the other components

The homebuilts can be built by semi skilled persons in home workshops and splitting an Acro or Lazer into sections (wing, fuselage, tail group, powerplant and building them using separate teams in separate locations (Spitfire production style) would result in a very capable aircraft with similar characteristics to the Yak-50/52. Lycoming engines and their spares are easy to get as are all the other items that need maintenance like wheels, brakes, instruments, electrics (like starters and generators), etc, without having to get them from Russia or Russian supporting countries.

Plus the American engines use electric starters, not pneumatic starters, that are easy to repair and get spares parts for.
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Bet there's a bunch of Cessnas, or similar planes, ALREADY there. Probably a bunch of eager volunteers as well.
 
In a combat environment, homebuilts and observation/liaison types are at risk.

It will only be a matter of time before Russia changes tactics.

With a COIN type aircraft performing anti-drone missions, it not only has the electronics for targeting, but countermeasures as well.

Aside from the AT-802U, other candidates would be Embraer's EMB 314, the Pilatus PC-21, Turkey's TAI Hürkus and several other types.
 
GrauGeist said:
In a combat environment, homebuilts and observation/liaison types are at risk.

It will only be a matter of time before Russia changes tactics.

With a COIN type aircraft performing anti-drone missions, it not only has the electronics for targeting, but countermeasures as well.

Aside from the AT-802U, other candidates would be Embraer's EMB 314, the Pilatus PC-21, Turkey's TAI Hürkus and several other types.
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I have to agree with all of these comments. It's easy in our search for ideas, to forget that the most expensive and important part of the options would be the pilot. Something with an ejector seat will at least give the crew a fighting chance of surviving.
 
GrauGeist said:
In a combat environment, homebuilts and observation/liaison types are at risk.

It will only be a matter of time before Russia changes tactics.

With a COIN type aircraft performing anti-drone missions, it not only has the electronics for targeting, but countermeasures as well.

Aside from the AT-802U, other candidates would be Embraer's EMB 314, the Pilatus PC-21, Turkey's TAI Hürkus and several other types.
Click to expand...

True to a point. As GTX shows in post 31,626 the stall speed of the AT-802U at 169 kmh is way above the cruise speed of all the drones except the Shaheed which means the pilot has minimal time to see and deal with his very small target.
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I do agree that the two seaters extra crew member is a definite advantage in many cases and cannot think of a two seat high performance aerobatic aircraft other than the Yak-52 and its Chinese equivalent.

There are a lot of high performance two seat homebuilts though that would closely match the Yak in top AND stall speeds and have a much lower radar signature (many are up to 90% composite structure which generally produces zero radar signature, like radomes) and would often be operating a distance from the Russian lines so that would significantly reduce the risk to the aircraft and crew. For many homebuilts the only sources of radar signature are the engine/prop and landing gear and they also have a minimal heat signature so operating an aircraft that is too far away to shoot a gun at, and has almost nothing for a missile to home on, does, to me, outweigh a lot of the disadvantages.

The COIN aircraft's electronics are an advantage in some circumstances but they do provide an electronic signature for the Russians to home on. I avoid FM boxes (avionics) like the plague so cannot claim any knowledge of that area.

The Yak is a beautiful aircraft (I love that engine) but it does have a far larger radar signature than most homebuilts. Likewise the exhaust collector ring provides a bigger heat source than short stacks like the homebuilts could be fitted with and if they are ejector stacks the heat is minimal (though the noise is way higher). I am sure someone in Ukraine could design a cooled quiet exhaust though. As they show every day - they are VERY smart people.
 
It's been a while since Joe (FlyboyJ) and I discussed two of the COIN types, the 802U and the Super Tucano (his fav), but I recall that the 802U has an armored "bathtub" style cockpit because it was also designed for ground attack.

As far as maneuverability goes, the Air Tractor was designed originally as a crop duster and retains it's performance, even in military dress.

I have seen the Air Tractor in action, as the AT-802F fire fighter and it was impressive.
 
GrauGeist said:
It's been a while since Joe (FlyboyJ) and I discussed two of the COIN types, the 802U and the Super Tucano (his fav), but I recall that the 802U has an armored "bathtub" style cockpit because it was also designed for ground attack.

As far as maneuverability goes, the Air Tractor was designed originally as a crop duster and retains it's performance, even in military dress.

I have seen the Air Tractor in action, as the AT-802F fire fighter and it was impressive.
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I sure miss Joe. Wasn't close to him but dug his posts, he was no bullshit.
 
MiTasol said:
But Cessnas and Pipers do not have the combination of speed and manoeuvrability that the homebuilts have. The homebuilt aerobatic aircraft have a much wider speed range as well. I agree about the volunteers though.
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There are many great airframes out there that could do a better job. The point I'm trying to make is private civilian planes are already there and with a ready reserve of pilots. If they have some Tiger Moths in situ, they would work too. I'm thinking a high wing plane without any LG in the way might even be better than the Yak-52.
 
That Bronco II sure looks interesting and Ukraine would be an ideal proving ground for it. It could go far closer to the front lines than a homebuilt but then again you can probably buy a hundred homebuilts for the price of the Bronco II

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the structure is composite and what other radar deflecting items were built in.
 
In regards to COIN types, they have the ability to target-lock, even at a high rate of closure.
Depending on equipment slung on the hardpoints (A2A, gunpods) a kill would be forthcoming while having situational awareness via the onboard electronics of a potential SAM lock.

Flapping around in a GA bird dog does not have that luxury and the chance of an RPG flying up your poop-chute carries a high likelihood.
 
Azovstal revenge:

www.twz.com

Ukraine Situation Report: Besieged Russian Troops Holding Out In Bombed-Out Factory

Russia's offensive has left a factory town where street battles continue rage in ruins and dozens of its troops surrounded.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

An ukranian MLRS blown up. Interesting the point that the russian drone could loiter so much time hoovering un molested. Maybe a COIN aircraft is not a bad idea in some cases; information emerged that a Russian air defense interceptor possibly either knocked the ATACMS off course over a crowded beach or itself exploded and killed the crimean beachgoers; Russian MoD claimed that on Thursday, a U.S. MQ-9 Reaper drone made a dangerous approach toward one of its Su-35 on a scheduled flight over Syria (this is russian neolanguage so the MQ-9 approach is more like a Su-35 approach, but I'm like Jon Snow and know nothing); the downing of a russian Su-25; an ukranian Westland Sea King flying; a wounded russian soldier abandoned by 3 of his comrades and some other news:

www.twz.com

Ukraine May Have Lost An M270 MLRS For The First Time

The M270s have been a bane to Russian war efforts and were reportedly involved in a recent deadly ballistic missile strike on Crimea.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
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