"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (6 Viewers)

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Despite title, a lot of Ukraine discussion in this.

Richard Shirreff is Co-founder and Managing Partner at Strategia Worldwide. After graduating from Oxford, he served in the British Army for 37 years commanding soldiers on operations or in combat at every level from platoon to division and rising to the highest rank before retiring from the Army as NATO's Deputy Supreme Commander Europe. Richard is co-Founder and Managing Partner of Strategia Worldwide. In 2016 his novel '2017: War with Russia' was published in the UK, USA, and Poland. He is an honorary Fellow of Exeter College, Oxford.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-5Im05xONI
 
GTX said:
Those talking about COIN aircraft or similar being used over or close to the front line to hunt drones have to remember that any such platform will be almost certainly shot down very, very quickly. You also need to remember that the speed difference between most of the drones in operation and the aircraft will make it extremely difficult to enable pilots to get kills unless they are equipped with an advanced targeting system. The drones are typically very small and pilots will be forced to slow down to almost stall speed in many cases which will again put them at risk.

It is a different matter if operating well behind the front but again speed differences will be challenging.

Once again, I see the following as the most practical options:
  • Ground based systems
  • Helicopters
  • perhaps other drones
Click to expand...

You will note I always referred to the homebuilts as operating well behind the front lines where they were out of visual and radar range of the Russians.

Small composite aircraft should be able to operate far closer to the Russians than COIN aircraft however because of their low radar signature and the fact they are probably less than one quarter the volume of a Yak-52 and therefore also much harder to locate visually. Compared to the COIN aircraft they are even smaller again and their heat signature is far lower than the Yak or any COIN aircraft.

The other thing I think I only mentioned once was using them to topple drones, not shoot them down.

To me the extreme options for using aircraft to kill drones behind the lines like near Kiev are:
  • one COIN aircraft costing many millions, with a highly trained pilot who would be better utilized flying an F-16 (plus a very highly trained avionics operator) firing rockets that cost around $100,000 or so each at a target that will need to be visually acquired so that the missile is aimed by the crew (those drones are not only slow but have low radar and heat signatures for the missile to lock on to). or
  • one COIN aircraft costing many millions, with a highly trained pilot who would be better utilized flying an F-16 (plus a very highly trained avionics operator) firing a split second machine gun burst at a target that will need to be visually acquired as the aircraft rockets past, or
  • multiple homebuilts flown by amateur pilots killing the drones by toppling them (or maybe by a second crew member shooting them with an AK-47 or similar weapon).
The homebuilt could operate using radio receivers (not transceivers) so that they are not emitting any radio signals for the Russians to home on.

Ground based systems and helicopters are high cost and require trained operators. There are probably homebuilt helicopters out there but I suspect helicopter pilots are not as common as fixed wing pilots.
 
Last edited:
MiTasol said:
You will note I always referred to the homebuilts as operating well behind the front lines where they were out of visual and radar range of the Russians.

Small composite aircraft should be able to operate far closer to the Russians than COIN aircraft however because of their low radar signature and the fact they are probably less than one quarter the volume of a Yak-52 and therefore also much harder to locate visually. Compared to the COIN aircraft they are even smaller again and their heat signature is far lower than the Yak or any COIN aircraft.

The other thing I think I only mentioned once was using them to topple drones, not shoot them down.

To me the extreme options for using aircraft to kill drones behind the lines like near Kiev are:
  • one COIN aircraft costing many millions, with a highly trained pilot who would be better utilized flying an F-16 (plus a very highly trained avionics operator) firing rockets that cost around $100,000 or so each at a target that will need to be visually acquired so that the missile is aimed by the crew (those drones are not only slow but have low radar and heat signatures for the missile to lock on to). or
  • one COIN aircraft costing many millions, with a highly trained pilot who would be better utilized flying an F-16 (plus a very highly trained avionics operator) firing a split second machine gun burst at a target that will need to be visually acquired as the aircraft rockets past, or
  • multiple homebuilts flown by amateur pilots killing the drones by toppling them (or maybe by a second crew member shooting them with an AK-47 or similar weapon).
The homebuilt could operate using radio receivers (not transceivers) so that they are not emitting any radio signals for the Russians to home on.

Ground based systems and helicopters are high cost and require trained operators. There are probably homebuilt helicopters out there but I suspect helicopter pilots are not as common as fixed wing pilots.
Click to expand...
Or, use whatever they have handy rather than turn it into a Pentagon procurement program. For use way behind the lines.
 
Hmmm...

I looked back at my posts and cannot find where I said COIN aircraft would be operating over front lines. Weird.

I did say that COIN aircraft are designed for a combat environment and they could also provide additional assistance to ground forces if they were in a dire situation. Read: *could*

Yes, these types cost more than a hobby plane or a GA plane and since we're on a military site, that should not really come as any surprise.

If the Ukrainians want to arm a haywagon with a few shotguns and go roaming the skies outside of Kyiv, cool.

But a typical COIN has good loiter time and depending on the type, comparable electronics for detection and interdiction, which would be a valuable asset in creating a "no fly" corridor behind their front areas.

COINs also don't need fighter jet pilots and as a bonus, pilots who are assigned COINs would be getting good stick time that would help them up the ladder.

They would be the perfect first line of defense before the Russian drones penetrated deeper toward population centers - the ones that get through can be picked off by (enter civil type here).
 
GrauGeist said:
Hmmm...

I looked back at my posts and cannot find where I said COIN aircraft would be operating over front lines. Weird.

I did say that COIN aircraft are designed for a combat environment and they could also provide additional assistance to ground forces if they were in a dire situation. Read: *could*

Yes, these types cost more than a hobby plane or a GA plane and since we're on a military site, that should not really come as any surprise.

If the Ukrainians want to arm a haywagon with a few shotguns and go roaming the skies outside of Kyiv, cool.

But a typical COIN has good loiter time and depending on the type, comparable electronics for detection and interdiction, which would be a valuable asset in creating a "no fly" corridor behind their front areas.

COINs also don't need fighter jet pilots and as a bonus, pilots who are assigned COINs would be getting good stick time that would help them up the ladder.

They would be the perfect first line of defense before the Russian drones penetrated deeper toward population centers - the ones that get through can be picked off by (enter civil type here).
Click to expand...

I'm still liking an O-2 with a couple of 7,62s stuck out the windows. Twin engine, good loiter-time, capacious fuselage in relative terms. Pull up alongside and do a drive-by.
 
GTX said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZvyWiYuatE
Click to expand...

At the beginning of Russia's invasion and hungry for info, I watched one of his videos. He got it wrong. I don't remember what it was exactly. I just don't trust this guy even though he has a following, even by commentators I watch. There's something about this guy that reminds me of a feminine hygienic device.
 
GrauGeist said:
Hmmm...

I looked back at my posts and cannot find where I said COIN aircraft would be operating over front lines. Weird.

I did say that COIN aircraft are designed for a combat environment and they could also provide additional assistance to ground forces if they were in a dire situation. Read: *could*

Yes, these types cost more than a hobby plane or a GA plane and since we're on a military site, that should not really come as any surprise.

If the Ukrainians want to arm a haywagon with a few shotguns and go roaming the skies outside of Kyiv, cool.

But a typical COIN has good loiter time and depending on the type, comparable electronics for detection and interdiction, which would be a valuable asset in creating a "no fly" corridor behind their front areas.

COINs also don't need fighter jet pilots and as a bonus, pilots who are assigned COINs would be getting good stick time that would help them up the ladder.

They would be the perfect first line of defense before the Russian drones penetrated deeper toward population centers - the ones that get through can be picked off by (enter civil type here).
Click to expand...


I agree that you did not ever say that the COIN aircraft should operate near the front lines. I obviously misinterpreted you.

On the other hand I am 80 and if I was Ukrainian I would be willing to strap on a homebuilt with a wide performance envelope and go kill drones. There is absolutely no way that I would ever be allowed to strap a COIN aircraft on and nor would I want to as it would be way more than I would ever be able to handle.
 
About YAK-52, assuming its really effective.

There are a few second hand on sale:
www.planecheck.com

PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions

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www.planecheck.com

As far as I know latest production of IAK-52 (no, the I is not a mistake) was in late 90's early 2000's by Romanian company AEROSTAR S.A with westernized avionics.
I wonder if production could be restarted, but at least maintenance is possible.

Regarding the engine, its still produced, and spare parts are available, by Romanian company Motorstar

M-14P Spare Parts,M-14V26 Spare Parts, Overhauling M-14P engine, Overhauling M-14V26 engine, Russian Overhauled Engines

Motorstar produces and overhauls M-14P and M-14V26 radial piston engines. Among the few companies in the world which is still producing these type of engines. OEM parts for M-14P and M-14V26. Gears and machined parts for various application in aerospace and defence industry.
motorstar.ro

On a side note, Flug + Werk GmbH the company the produced the FW-190 replicas, sub-contracted the construction to Aerostar SA.
And that may be a problem, who cares about restarting production of IAK-52 when you could be blowing up drones in a FW-190, even if its more expensive and not as effective. :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy:
 
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