fubar57
General
Steady......
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter XBe02Drvr
- Start date
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It's about 1,000-1,100 km flight from Ukraine's front lines to Kaspiysk. The 2,000 km has been reached earlier. Distance from Kaspiysk to Tehran is about 1,000 km over the Caspian Sea, around Azeri oil fields.
I don't know why I say this.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
I doubt it.
Oh wake up!
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Ok guys, let's stop with the doom and gloom.
Even if the U.S. stops support, other nations will continue theirs.
Plus, Putin bringing in DPRK troops has unwittingly created a powerful ally for Ukraine in the form of South Korea, who also is not a NATO member, so if they wanted to send troops, Putin cannot cry foul.
Even if the U.S. stops support, other nations will continue theirs.
Plus, Putin bringing in DPRK troops has unwittingly created a powerful ally for Ukraine in the form of South Korea, who also is not a NATO member, so if they wanted to send troops, Putin cannot cry foul.
Admiral Beez
Major
If I were the Georgians or Moldovans, now is your chance to rise up and force out the Russian separatists. You won't get another chance this generation.
Warspite63
Senior Airman
- 492
- Dec 8, 2022
I disagree ....somewhat. I suspect the war will be frozen, as it was after 2014, with the Russians retaining what they have stolen to date. This will be accomplished by basically threatening Ukraine with the cessation of all aid. The Russians will obviously disregard any treaty obligations they make and will immediately start stirring up problems. The rump Ukrainian state will do one of 2 things: 1. Decide they have had enough and that existing as a Russian vassal is better than being dead; or 2. Start a nuclear program RFN. Ironically, North Korea shows them the benefits of having nuclear weapons .... no-one f**ks with you. I could also see them negotiating defence treaties with individual European countries, i.e., Poland
NATO will not die. It will change, as (regardless of any political posturing) it is clear that Putin is intent on recreating the Soviet Empire. Europe will be forced to acknowledge the threat and respond accordingly. NATO has never been totally 'monolithic'- it will change because it will have to
Of course, I could be completely wrong.....
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buffnut453
Captain
The unpalatable truth facing the European nations is that they MUST increase defence spending and start doing it immediately.
The fact that most NATO member nations now commit 2+% of their GDP to defence is little more than a fig leaf. When I joined up in the late-80s, the UK's defence budget was around 4.2% of GDP...and even that was a marked decline from the 7.1% of the mid-60s.
Such a move would be massively unpopular with the populaces but it's the only way I can see for Ukraine to stay in the fight or for the West to maintain a deterrent pressure on Russia. At the very least, it would be a prudent insurance measure.
The fact that most NATO member nations now commit 2+% of their GDP to defence is little more than a fig leaf. When I joined up in the late-80s, the UK's defence budget was around 4.2% of GDP...and even that was a marked decline from the 7.1% of the mid-60s.
Such a move would be massively unpopular with the populaces but it's the only way I can see for Ukraine to stay in the fight or for the West to maintain a deterrent pressure on Russia. At the very least, it would be a prudent insurance measure.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Hopefully Biden will stop slow-rolling shit now that the writing's on the wall.
I think that what we are afraid of is that the USA will try a "peace for our time" solution. We all know how well that went last time, since we're all on this forum.
Afaics, the only thing safeguarding from this will be that Europe finally cleans up their own political mess and start acting as an independent power. But I'm afraid, that's far away.
I'll leave it at that, since I don't want this to end up as a debate of anyone's internal politics.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
The decisive victory yesterday was Putin's ... and Xi's for that matter.
Okay, that's enough about this topic. I know it's hard as it's a bit like a crippled discussion without it, but we need to stay away from someone's internal politics as much as possible.
Admiral Beez
Major
We'll see. What could be rushed over that would matter? Ukraine is f#cked.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 43,091
- Mar 26, 2007
Funding.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
This has always been the goal of the once and future American president. A Europe willing and capable of defending itself, rather that expecting Big Brother across the pond to do it for them and then resenting our presence.
Sure, it's our own mess to clean up. This is Europe's fault, not the USA's
Open the flood gates. Give them everything they want and then some.
While Europe can and will ramp up their own defence investment I fear that the individual countries involved will focus first and foremost on their own needs since they will be bracing for Russia's next attack. If I was any of them, especially Poland and the Baltic states I would also be looking at getting nukes. And deal with the traitorous Hungary etc too.
Unfortunately I believe Ukraine will go down though. You can only do so much when you get stabbed in the back by traitorous scum.
