"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (6 Viewers)

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MiTasol said:
Putin will claim he will accept nothing less than 100% of Ukraine and the destruction of NATO.
Click to expand...
And Zelensky has stated countless times that he and Ukraine, will not accept anything less than complete withdrawal of all Russian forces from sovereign Ukrainian soil.

So regardless of which U.S. administration is in the White House, Ukraine is in it for the long game and will carry on with or without Washington's help.
 
Jabberwocky said:
To derail the thread temporarily - it's amazingly difficult to determine with any accuracy just what proportion of "budget" went to the military at any time during the existence of the USSR. My background is in economic history and I find the ins and outs of the arguments about the details of Soviet military spending a fascinating subject.

US intelligence assessments of military spending in the USSR during the mid 1980s ranged from low end figures in the range of 12-15% of GDP, mid range estimates of 17-24% and upper range estimates in the 30-38% range. In 1985, spending in then current US dollars was estimated at anywhere as low as $175 billion all the way up to about $330 billion.

From the mid 1970s and into the tail end of the 1980s, the CIA and DIA were basically at loggerheads with academics and economists about how to properly estimate the size of the Soviet economy and what the actual level of spending was that they were lavishing on the military. The intelligence agencies generally gave quite low GNP estimates but figured that military spending was 50% of the state budget, or a little more. The academics were a bit more varied, their GNP estimates had a much greater range (as little as 1/2 of that of the intelligent agencies to 3x as much) and their estimates of military spending were generally much more conservative. However, there was also some very outspoken academics who thought the CIA/DIA methodoligies were underestimating Soviet GNP and military spending.

If anyone feels like chasing some odd rabbits down weird holes:


EDIT: For anyone that reads Russian (or has a good machine translator they like), here's some Russian estimates about defense spending:

Click to expand...
Very informative.

It's also not that easy to compare military spending between countries, mostly because of what different countries toss into the "defense budget." Does the US Dept of Homeland Security count as part of the defense budget? How about the Gendarmes of France or the Carabinieri of Italy?

I suspect that even if were one to get all the budget information for every country, it would still be difficult to sort out what various countries are spending on defense.

Post-war, I do hope that Russia gets to pay for the damage they've done to Ukraine.
 
Jabberwocky said:
To derail the thread temporarily - it's amazingly difficult to determine with any accuracy just what proportion of "budget" went to the military at any time during the existence of the USSR. My background is in economic history and I find the ins and outs of the arguments about the details of Soviet military spending a fascinating subject.

US intelligence assessments of military spending in the USSR during the mid 1980s ranged from low end figures in the range of 12-15% of GDP, mid range estimates of 17-24% and upper range estimates in the 30-38% range. In 1985, spending in then current US dollars was estimated at anywhere as low as $175 billion all the way up to about $330 billion.

From the mid 1970s and into the tail end of the 1980s, the CIA and DIA were basically at loggerheads with academics and economists about how to properly estimate the size of the Soviet economy and what the actual level of spending was that they were lavishing on the military. The intelligence agencies generally gave quite low GNP estimates but figured that military spending was 50% of the state budget, or a little more. The academics were a bit more varied, their GNP estimates had a much greater range (as little as 1/2 of that of the intelligent agencies to 3x as much) and their estimates of military spending were generally much more conservative. However, there was also some very outspoken academics who thought the CIA/DIA methodoligies were underestimating Soviet GNP and military spending.

If anyone feels like chasing some odd rabbits down weird holes:


EDIT: For anyone that reads Russian (or has a good machine translator they like), here's some Russian estimates about defense spending:

Click to expand...
I agree. Soviet economical and other statistics remain the field for discussions and various interpretations.
It's common to say about the "fog of war" when the war is on. And USSR was de-facto in the state of war since the first year and almost until the end. Enemies were different, outside and within but people were told since the kindergarten that they lived in the sieged fortress, so to speak. It was a habit to live in a fog of war and a duty to maintain this fog.
Military related spendings were often hidden in the financial reporting. As someone who did such reporting in the soviet merchant marine industry I knew it very welll.
Thanks for the links!
 
defence-blog.com

Ukraine showcases mass production of Ratel drones

A Ukrainian defense company has unveiled the large-scale production of its Ratel S unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs), robotic platforms designed for tactical operations against Russian forces. These vehicles are being deployed in various roles, including remote mining and kamikaze missions, to...
defence-blog.com defence-blog.com

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