"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (1 Viewer)

buffnut453 · Apr 5, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
Yep - war and war-zones suck - especially for civilians.

Regards
Jagdflieger

Entirely agree, although there's a world of difference between deliberate targeting of military capabilities and civilians being caught inadvertently and what we're seeing in Ukraine. The long-range bombardment of civilian apartment blocks in multiple cities, "shoot first and forget about asking later" engagements by combat vehicles against civilian vehicles, attacking hospital facilities....those are not the actions of a military that's seeking to minimize civilian casualties. They're the actions of a military that fundamentally doesn't understand how to wage war except by total annihilation. It's dishonorable, immoral, and entirely contrary to any established norms for most militaries over the past 75 years.

Macandy · Apr 5, 2022

buffnut453 said:
Entirely agree, although there's a world of difference between deliberate targeting of military capabilities and civilians being caught inadvertently and what we're seeing in Ukraine. The long-range bombardment of civilian apartment blocks in multiple cities, "shoot first and forget about asking later" engagements by combat vehicles against civilian vehicles, attacking hospital facilities....those are not the actions of a military that's seeking to minimize civilian casualties. They're the actions of a military that fundamentally doesn't understand how to wage war except by total annihilation. It's dishonorable, immoral, and entirely contrary to any established norms for most militaries over the past 75 years.

If WWII had kicked off in Europe, it was always expected the Russians would use chemical weapons to drive huge numbers of fleeing civilians onto the roads to block Western reinforcements coming up, and would strafe the roads constantly to create widespread civilian casualties and terror and further hinder advancing Western troops - would you want to drive your tanks over roads carpeted with your dead and wounded civilians?

There is nothing new about this - Large scale killing of civilians was always part and parcel of the Russian armies playbook.

buffnut453 · Apr 5, 2022

Macandy said:
There is nothing new about this - Large scale killing of civilians was always part and parcel of the Russian armies playbook.

Which brings us back to the total lack of logical planning for the invasion of Ukraine. If you're planning to liberate an oppressed people, you don't do it by deliberately killing them....unless you're using the most expansive definition of the term "liberate".

I can understand wanting to disrupt the civilian population of your enemies. However, Putin and his cronies have persistently asserted that they're bringing freedom to the people of Ukraine who are living under nazi oppression. The illogic is breathtaking.

Admiral Beez · Apr 5, 2022

Macandy said:
If WWII had kicked off in Europe, it was always expected the Russians would use chemical weapons

Not to question your numeracy, but are you sure you have the right war? China aside, WWII did kick off in Europe and I don't believe anyone used chemical weapons.

Admiral Beez · Apr 5, 2022

buffnut453 said:
Which brings us back to the total lack of logical planning for the invasion of Ukraine. If you're planning to liberate an oppressed people, you don't do it by deliberately killing them..

It is a head scratcher. What could be the strategy here?

wlewisiii · Apr 5, 2022

Dimlee · Apr 5, 2022

wlewisiii said:
Speaking of war crimes, looting of prisoners and/or bodies is also a war crime:

There was a new "invasion" in the past few days. In the post offices of Belarus. Returning troops sent parcels to their home places across the Russian Federation. Belarus opposition managed to obtain some shipments' data. Hundreds of kilograms per person...

Dimlee · Apr 5, 2022

Excellent briefing. Highly recommended to anyone who wants to understand the roots of this war.

Admiral Beez · Apr 5, 2022

Dimlee said:
Excellent briefing. Highly recommended to anyone who wants to understand the roots of this war.

Very informative about Putin's miscalculation and misunderstanding.

Thumpalumpacus · Apr 5, 2022

buffnut453 said:
Entirely agree, although there's a world of difference between deliberate targeting of military capabilities and civilians being caught inadvertently and what we're seeing in Ukraine. The long-range bombardment of civilian apartment blocks in multiple cities, "shoot first and forget about asking later" engagements by combat vehicles against civilian vehicles, attacking hospital facilities....those are not the actions of a military that's seeking to minimize civilian casualties. They're the actions of a military that fundamentally doesn't understand how to wage war except by total annihilation. It's dishonorable, immoral, and entirely contrary to any established norms for most militaries over the past 75 years.

Maslow's Hammer: "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

tomo pauk · Apr 5, 2022

Crimea_River said:
I for one am getting pretty tired of these posts. There have been several in this vane and so I feel that I need to pipe up.

I abhor what is going on in Ukraine and have no doubt that there are clear cases to be made for war crimes charges against many individuals. However, I reject the allusion to guilt by association that underlies this and other posts that you've made and would suggest that it's exactly this kind of argument that Putin used as justification to invade Ukraine in the first place. The sober consideration of facts and the presumption of innocence until guilt is proven is what separates we who hold the rule of law sacrosanct from the flagrant abusers of international order.

History books are FULL of examples of generalized hatred and the resulting horrors. It's time we learned.

I'll pipe up, too.

Members of Duma, Russian government, and Russian military officers from colonels up are all guilty by association. All of them are lectured individuals, so there is no 'I didn't know' excuse. All of them are conscious human beings (I at least hope they are) giving either voice, or legality, or muscle to Putin, so there is no 'I could do nothing' excuse either. They are either supporting Putin, or are to much of cowards to stop him by any means necessary - either way they are guilty.

It is high time that we learn that a life of a next man in the street is as valuable as a life of anyone in the high-up a position. It is high time for people in position of power in Russia to assume responsibility for their actions, as well as for their inactions.
Putin himself needs to meet a bullet, for discouragement of the others. That is a way-out for any self-aware member of Russian government or military.

Comparing Ukraine and Russia is bad taste.

Admiral Beez · Apr 5, 2022

Thumpalumpacus said:
The U.S. will help allies move Soviet-made tanks to Ukraine in an effort to assist the country in protecting its Donbas region amid the Russian invasion, The New York Times reported Friday.

Looks like things are happening on the tanks.

Thumpalumpacus · Apr 5, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Looks like things are happening on the tanks.

I hope this is accurate. If so, I'd support pulling any older M1s we have in mothballs for refurbishment and backfilling the Czech arms.

As for the donated tanks being old, yes, they are. But they're facing low-quality troops which have already lost a significant proportion of their own armor, and they won't be operating under opposing air-superiority.

Admiral Beez · Apr 5, 2022

I have to think the Ukrainians have one of the best MiG-29 paint schemes.

Might they want some invasion stripes under the wing to avoid friendly AA fire?

SaparotRob · Apr 5, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
I have to think the Ukrainians have one of the best MiG-29 paint schemes.

View attachment 663818

Might they want some invasion stripes under the wing to avoid friendly AA fire?

Brilliant.

Thumpalumpacus · Apr 5, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
I have to think the Ukrainians have one of the best MiG-29 paint schemes.

View attachment 663818

Might they want some invasion stripes under the wing to avoid friendly AA fire?

My radar can't track it, the epileptic fit it brings on breaks lock.

Admiral Beez · Apr 5, 2022

Thumpalumpacus said:
I hope this is accurate. If so, I'd support pulling any older M1s we have in mothballs for refurbishment and backfilling the Czech arms.

At 0:12, is that a T-72 minus ERA? I thought it looked like an old T-62.

Does Peru still have its twenty-odd MiG-29s? I'm sure a US security guarantee would free those up for a five stage transatlantic flight. Plus the US could send all its MiG-29s. Throw in the Polish ones and that's three or four squadrons worth. But damn it, the West needs to hurry, Russian offensive 2.0 will begin within the next 10 days or so.

SaparotRob · Apr 5, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
I have to think the Ukrainians have one of the best MiG-29 paint schemes.

View attachment 663818

Might they want some invasion stripes under the wing to avoid friendly AA fire?

NATO doesn't have a National insignia for aircraft per se. I can't think of a more uniting symbol for its planes.
The Empire's air forces, USAAF and Free French aircraft had Invasion Stripes. Kind of like the same nations that form NATO.

Thumpalumpacus · Apr 5, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
At 0:12, is that a T-72 minus ERA? I thought it looked like an old T-62i.

It looks like one to me, but I'm no expert on Soviet tanks.

wlewisiii would definitely be the better person to ask this to.

Admiral Beez said:
Does Peru still have its twenty-odd MiG-29s? I'm sure a US security guarantee would free those up for a five stage transatlantic flight. Plus the US could send all its MiG-29s. Throw in the Polish ones and that's three or four squadrons worth. But damn it, the West needs to hurry, Russian offensive 2.0 will begin within the next 10 days or so.

I don't think you're going to see American action in supplying planes. And Peru giving up its only squadron of supersonic fighters is a tall ask, too.

buffnut453 · Apr 5, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
At 0:12, is that a T-72 minus ERA? I thought it looked like an old T-62.

Does Peru still have its twenty-odd MiG-29s? I'm sure a US security guarantee would free those up for a five stage transatlantic flight. Plus the US could send all its MiG-29s. Throw in the Polish ones and that's three or four squadrons worth. But damn it, the West needs to hurry, Russian offensive 2.0 will begin within the next 10 days or so.

Yep, it's a T-72. The T-55 and T-62 both had 5 main road wheels, albeit with different spacing. The T-72 has 6 large road wheels.

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