Guys lets be careful with the politics. Its ok to an extent but when we start dabbling in general politics and ideology of the American voting population we start to get on thin ice.
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (19 Viewers)
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okay, I know I started this, but I think we should stop discussing the US intentions for now.
As I said, I find it quite hard to stay the impartial moderator here, as much of this situation concerns me and my fellow Europeans. So give me some slack if I derail again. Of course you are allowed to point it out to me. No moderation without being moderated ourselves. I'm just human…
One special message to
drgondog
:
I know you're outnumbered here. I think we are both from the opposing parts of the political spectrum, so it's logical we don't always agree. But I've come to know you to be an intelligent and thoughtful member of this community. So please know I do appreciate your contributions here.
As I said, I find it quite hard to stay the impartial moderator here, as much of this situation concerns me and my fellow Europeans. So give me some slack if I derail again. Of course you are allowed to point it out to me. No moderation without being moderated ourselves. I'm just human…
One special message to
drgondog
:I know you're outnumbered here. I think we are both from the opposing parts of the political spectrum, so it's logical we don't always agree. But I've come to know you to be an intelligent and thoughtful member of this community. So please know I do appreciate your contributions here.
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okay, I know I started this, but I think we should stop discussing the US intentions for now.
As I said, I find it quite hard to stay the impartial moderator here, as much of this situation als concerns me and my fellow Europeans. So give me some slack if I derail again. Of course you are allowed to point it out to me. No moderation without being moderated ourselves. I'm just human…
One special message to
I know you're outnumbered here. I think we a are both from the opposit parts of the political spectrum, so it's logical we don't always agree. But I've come to know you to be an intelligent and thoughtful member of this community. So please know I do appreciate your contributions here.
No worries Marcel. I don't think there is a single one of us that can be singled out regarding this. Everyone wants to be heard. This is a very intense and polarizing topic.
Admiral Beez
Major
Is there anyway militarily in 2025 for Ukraine to make any inroads into Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts? If the war goes onto 2026, what does Ukraine need to make a move then? Or are these areas forever lost to Ukraine?
Ukraine need to continue its mostly successful defensive operation, bleeding-out the russian unitsd atacking them. We already see T-62 and T-55 in action, mabe next year we'll see T-34 again. Russian storages are not endless and at some time they will run out of useful battle vehicles.
buffnut453
Captain
One special message to
I know you're outnumbered here. I think we are both from the opposing parts of the political spectrum, so it's logical we don't always agree. But I've come to know you to be an intelligent and thoughtful member of this community. So please know I do appreciate your contributions here.
Marcel
,Pretty much agree with your sentiments about
drgondog
and his contributions. I'm not necessarily on a different part of the political spectrum. I just think that working with allies is likely to yield better results than going it alone. At the very least, incorporating European partners in the meetings with Russia would afford opportunities to negotiate mutually-agreeable security guarantees.The US going it alone with Russia means that, at some point, those EU-backed security guarantees will have to be discussed...and not having the US at the table for those discussions doesn't make sense, particularly if the US is putting commercial assets on the ground in Ukraine. If I was the CEO of an American company contemplating putting boots on the ground in Ukraine, I'd want a rock solid assurance that the security of my employees was in place and reliable.
We can wring our hands about WWIII and MAD but the history of the Cold War indicates that a strong forward deterrent posture drives more to stalemate than to escalation. If Ukraine falls, then Russia's effective border will be smack up against that of NATO. If all Ukraine's original land is returned and Ukraine joins NATO, then Russia's border will be smack up against NATO. The result is the same. Conversely, giving in to Putin now simply risks further aggression in the future. Would the US go to war with Russia over, say, Latvia or Estonia? Both are NATO members...so where do we draw the line.
I disagree with
drgondog
on the idea that giving in to Putin will somehow result in a lasting peace. Historically, appeasement of bullies hasn't gone well. Putin's propensity for breaking deals and going back on agreements strongly suggests that he'll do exactly the same with any peace deal that doesn't involve threat of force.
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drgondog
Major
Just to alert folks that feel like Trump sabotaged the meeting, reflect that Senator Murphy bragged about Zelensky intentions
www.thegatewaypundit.com
The usual response to any source I produce is 'right wing propaganda' - disregard. So, read the article, read Murphy's tweet, decide for yourself.
This will be my last comment on the subject.
The US and NATO have leader's whose only objective is to destroy Russia. Our former SecDev Austin stated so publicly. There won't be any peace deal acceptable to that group save capitulation by Putin, so think hard what you wish for, versus what is likely.
Democrat Sen. Chris Murphy, Who Met with Zelensky Before WH Visit, Confirms the Ukrainian Leader Had Already Decided to Torpedo Trump’s Mineral Deal Before Meeting with Trump | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft
Senator Chris Murphy reveals that Ukrainian President Zelensky had predetermined to undermine a significant mineral deal with the U.S., highlighting a calculated strategy to prolong conflict rather than pursue peace.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
The usual response to any source I produce is 'right wing propaganda' - disregard. So, read the article, read Murphy's tweet, decide for yourself.
This will be my last comment on the subject.
The US and NATO have leader's whose only objective is to destroy Russia. Our former SecDev Austin stated so publicly. There won't be any peace deal acceptable to that group save capitulation by Putin, so think hard what you wish for, versus what is likely.
The ONLY acceptable peace deal involves Putin and Russia getting out of Ukraine.
Then you can discuss security agreements or not, and how to keep a lasting peace.
Who, invaded who?
Its not hard to understand. One country invaded another. They did not have to start shelling hospitals and schools and occupying a foreign country. Putin can stop this right now by ordering his forces to withdraw. Period.
Then you can discuss security agreements or not, and how to keep a lasting peace.
Who, invaded who?
Its not hard to understand. One country invaded another. They did not have to start shelling hospitals and schools and occupying a foreign country. Putin can stop this right now by ordering his forces to withdraw. Period.
buffnut453
Captain
That's patently not true. NATO worked alongside Russia very effectively after the end of the Cold War. During the 1990s, Russia was part of the peacekeeping forces in the Former Yugloslavia. The West has invested heavily in Russia, with companies setting up shop in the country. It's only since 2014 that relations have soured...and that's solely down to Russia's aggression in the region.
Please, PLEASE stop excusing Russia's actions or blaming NATO for them.
Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
Or repeating their propaganda like NATO aims to destroy Russia, which is blatantly false.
Warspite63
Staff Sergeant
- 841
- Dec 8, 2022
I'm actually expecting c) All of the above, TBH
When it comes to peace in Ukraine, its also not about "holding cards," it's about whats right or wrong. What side would you rather stand on?
It took them a while to figure that out in the 1930s with Germany, shouldn't be hard to figure that out here in 2025.
It took them a while to figure that out in the 1930s with Germany, shouldn't be hard to figure that out here in 2025.
buffnut453
Captain
Just to alert folks that feel like Trump sabotaged the meeting, reflect that Senator Murphy bragged about Zelensky intentions
Democrat Sen. Chris Murphy, Who Met with Zelensky Before WH Visit, Confirms the Ukrainian Leader Had Already Decided to Torpedo Trump’s Mineral Deal Before Meeting with Trump | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft
Senator Chris Murphy reveals that Ukrainian President Zelensky had predetermined to undermine a significant mineral deal with the U.S., highlighting a calculated strategy to prolong conflict rather than pursue peace.
The usual response to any source I produce is 'right wing propaganda' - disregard. So, read the article, read Murphy's tweet, decide for yourself.
Firstly, I've never dismissed any of your sources as right-wing propaganda.
Secondly, that tweet simply states that Zelinsky "confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine." The Ukrainian people don't want a peace deal forced down their throats if it allows Putin to win and doesn't provide security guarantees for any remaining part of Ukraine. Who, in their right mind, would sign up to any such deal? The aggressor gets to win and there are no consequences if he embarks on further aggression? That's not a peace deal...at least not how I understand the meaning of the term.
We all want peace in Ukraine. However, rewarding Russian aggression is NOT the way to achieve that goal.
That's the real disgrace in our countryJust to alert folks that feel like Trump sabotaged the meeting, reflect that Senator Murphy bragged about Zelensky intentions
Democrat Sen. Chris Murphy, Who Met with Zelensky Before WH Visit, Confirms the Ukrainian Leader Had Already Decided to Torpedo Trump’s Mineral Deal Before Meeting with Trump | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft
Senator Chris Murphy reveals that Ukrainian President Zelensky had predetermined to undermine a significant mineral deal with the U.S., highlighting a calculated strategy to prolong conflict rather than pursue peace.
The usual response to any source I produce is 'right wing propaganda' - disregard. So, read the article, read Murphy's tweet, decide for yourself.
This will be my last comment on the subject.
The US and NATO have leader's whose only objective is to destroy Russia. Our former SecDev Austin stated so publicly. There won't be any peace deal acceptable to that group save capitulation by Putin, so think hard what you wish for, versus what is likely.
Does anybody have a direct link to the actual tweet on X? I have trouble trusting thegatewaypundit as it has proven to be unreliable before.
buffnut453
Captain
Something different, I was in Rome last week This was how the Colosseum looked in the evening. My own photo:
I agree, I am missing the link here as well. I think this tweet is stating the obvious and what we have been saying all along. Ukraine cannot afford to have a peace without guarantees.
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