"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (2 Viewers)

[buffnut453]

"Not if you're an enemy of the people and a threat to the foundations of society." Society is more important than you are.
Hard to wrap your head around, isn't it?

But Putin keeps saying he's liberating the Ukrainian people from those enemies. You can't liberate people by killing them. The fundamental problem here is not different views of society. It's about aggressive narcissists in positions of power who refuse to accept ANY view except their own.

 

[GrauGeist]

The irony of all this, is that Russia is "liberating" the Ukraine from the "Nazis" the same way that the Germans "liberated" the Ukraine from the Communists 80 years ago...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

What I don't understand is what Russia is hoping to achieve by these tactics? Wasn't the goal of their invasion to topple the Ukrainian government and bring it and the Ukrainian people back into the Russian sphere? How does terrorizing the Ukrainian people, including millions of its Russian speaking civilians accomplish this? The result of these atrocities will be the complete opposite, since any Ukrainian who can fight will now fight, the people are now solidly behind their government, a new sense of Ukrainian nationhood has been forever strengthened and almost the entire world is watching aghast and one upping each other to hit Russia and support Ukraine.

State-led atrocities usually have a purpose. The Holocaust was Germany's plan to clear Europe of Jews and other "Untermensch". What's Putin's aim in terrorizing Ukraine's people? Even if they wanted to, these civilians have no means of forcing Ukraine to capitulate.

The idea may be to break the will of the people to resist. It can also have a complete opposite effect as we can see.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The idea may be to break the will of the people to resist.

Has that ever worked? If some foreign power killed our families, would we walk away? Damn no, we'd be standing side by side gunning to kill as many of the scum that we can. Once a man has nothing left to live for, he's most dangerous.

 

[GrauGeist]

The idea may be to break the will of the people to resist. It can also have a complete opposite effect as we can see.

When the Germans rolled into the Ukraine, the people greeted them as liberators, showering the troops with flowers and celebrations.

THAT right there, should have been a clue to the OKW that they had the hearts of the people and could have easily exploited the people to turn against the Red Army.

Instead, being typical assholes, they started their pogrom and turned the citizens (rightfully so) against them.

This historical fact seems to have been overlooked by Putler...

 

[Admiral Beez]

The irony of all this, is that Russia is "liberating" the Ukraine from the "Nazis" the same way that the Germans "liberated" the Ukraine from the Communists 80 years ago...

If they weren't Nazis the Germans would have have the smarts to see the Ukrainians as useful people to fight against the Russians. Yes, they did have the RKU and Ukrainian units, my wife's great uncle served in the 14th SS, but the Nazis soon showed their true selves and liquidated the Ukrainians.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Has that ever worked? If some foreign power killed our families, would we walk away? Damn no, we'd be standing side by side gunning to kill as many of the scum that we can. Once a man has nothing left to live for, he's most dangerous.

It likely works for some, and not so much for others. Many may think its not worth to the risk to lose their loved ones. Overall, though, I would agree it does not work in the grand scheme of things.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Another idea is to kill all men of fighting age.

Bucha survivors recount 'senseless' horror as they emerge from hiding

As Mykola Pavlyuk stood outside his apartment building in Bucha, tears streamed from his eyes, cutting through the grime on his face. Pavlyuk, 53, was one of the surviving residents of the besieged Ukrainian town, northwest of Kyiv, where gruesome evidence of killings and torture has come to...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

Another idea is to kill all men of fighting age.

Militarily that may make sense. The challenge is, the women can shoot too.

 

[buffnut453]

BREAKING NEWS:

The General Assembly of the United Nations has just voted to suspend Russia from its Human Rights Council during a session in New York.

It follows allegations of war crimes by Kremlin troops in Ukraine.

Before votes were cast, Ukraine's ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya accused Russia of "horrific" abuses – raising the issue of alleged civilian killings in the city of Bucha.

Russia's own representative Gennady Kuzmin condemned the vote, and other nations including North Korea and Syria rallied behind him.


UPDATE: Here are some details on how the vote went. Frankly, I'm surprised at the number of votes against and the number of abstentions:

Ninety-three countries voted in favour of the move, 24 against, and there were 58 abstentions.

Among the countries who supported the suspension were the US, EU nations, the UK, and of course Ukraine itself.

China, Syria, and Belarus were among those who voted against the motion.

And India, Egypt, and South Africa were among the nations which abstained.

 

[buffnut453]

Amnesty International is piling on the evidence of Russian atrocities in Ukraine:

Russian forces executed civilians in various locations in the Kyiv region, according to new testimony published by Amnesty International.

The human rights organisation interviewed more than 20 people from towns and villages near the capital, some were witnesses to, or had direct knowledge of, the violence committed, it says.

"In recent weeks, we have gathered evidence that Russian forces have committed extrajudicial executions and other unlawful killings, which must be investigated as likely war crimes," says Amnesty International Secretary General Agnès Callamard.

"Testimonies shows that unarmed civilians in Ukraine are being killed in their homes and streets in acts of unspeakable cruelty and shocking brutality."

In one account given, a woman in a village east of Kyiv told Amnesty two Russian soldiers entered her house on 9 March, killed her husband, then repeatedly raped her at gunpoint while her young son hid in a boiler room nearby.

With Russian forces retreating from the north of Ukraine, disturbing stories of life under occupation have been emerging. The BBC's Jeremy Bowen has been told of Russian troops using villagers as human shields against Ukrainian counter-attacks.

Russia has repeatedly denied that its forces have committed atrocities, and sought to point the finger of blame elsewhere.

 

[Jagdflieger]

What I don't understand is what Russia is hoping to achieve by these tactics? Wasn't the goal of their invasion to topple the Ukrainian government and bring it and the Ukrainian people back into the Russian sphere? How does terrorizing the Ukrainian people, including millions of its Russian speaking civilians accomplish this? The result of these atrocities will be the complete opposite, since any Ukrainian who can fight will now fight, the people are now solidly behind their government, a new sense of Ukrainian nationhood has been forever strengthened and almost the entire world is watching aghast and one upping each other to hit Russia and support Ukraine.

State-led atrocities usually have a purpose. The Holocaust was Germany's plan to clear Europe of Jews and other "Untermensch". What's Putin's aim in terrorizing Ukraine's people? Even if they wanted to, these civilians have no means of forcing Ukraine to capitulate.

I think you well do know what Russia (The Czar) is hoping to achieve.

That soldiers - especially when they had it meted out to them were (are) likely to go into retribution is nothing uncommon - see those GI's murdered by the e.g. SS or GI's having done the same to Wehrmacht members. Or Wehrmacht soldier having been murdered by Partisans and the Germans massacring a civilian town in return. The Allied bombers had killed 100,000's of civilians during WW2 - and not just Germans.
The USA killed/murdered 1 million? Vietnamese civilians by direct military means. 30 years later many Vietnamese were enthusiastic of US tourists and US manufacturing plants opening
up in their country.
I wouldn't know how many hundreds of civilian cars and its passengers were "murdered" during the Iraq invasion and occupation - later on especially near coalition military installations. As such no war going nation on this planet can say or claim for itself being innocent of these issues.

The Americans foremost paid load's of money directly and indirectly to Germany in order to "neutralize" the prevailing antipathy held by most Germans after the war.
Maybe the Czar will do the same? if not he will still find "his" reasons for justifying the "horrors of war"
In case he should even win this Ukraine invasion (God forbid) - the Czar will be dictating the books as to who's fault it was - off course the USA and their NATO serfs, who else?
As to how much the remaining beaten Ukrainians are going to agree towards his interpretation? we will see.

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Militarily that may make sense. The challenge is, the women can shoot too.

You are correct, those that are not caring for their families.

I would suspect the Russians may be a bit old fashioned in their thinking.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

BREAKING NEWS:

The General Assembly of the United Nations has just voted to suspend Russia from its Human Rights Council during a session in New York.

It follows allegations of war crimes by Kremlin troops in Ukraine.

Before votes were cast, Ukraine's ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya accused Russia of "horrific" abuses – raising the issue of alleged civilian killings in the city of Bucha.

Russia's own representative Gennady Kuzmin condemned the vote, and other nations including North Korea and Syria rallied behind him.


UPDATE: Here are some details on how the vote went. Frankly, I'm surprised at the number of votes against and the number of abstentions:

Ninety-three countries voted in favour of the move, 24 against, and there were 58 abstentions.

Among the countries who supported the suspension were the US, EU nations, the UK, and of course Ukraine itself.

China, Syria, and Belarus were among those who voted against the motion.

And India, Egypt, and South Africa were among the nations which abstained.

I'm not surprised at all. We should stop doing business with all the abstaining countries. Especially South Africa. You would think with their history they would be on the side of humanity.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think you well do know what Russia (The Czar) is hoping to achieve.

That soldiers - especially when they had it meted out to them were (are) likely to go into retribution is nothing uncommon - see those GI's murdered by the e.g. SS or GI's having done the same to Wehrmacht members. Or Wehrmacht soldier having been murdered by Partisans and the Germans massacring a civilian town in return. The Allied bombers had killed 100,000's of civilians during WW2 - and not just Germans.
The USA killed/murdered 1 million? Vietnamese civilians by direct military means. 30 years later many Vietnamese were enthusiastic of US tourists and US manufacturing plants opening
up in their country.
I wouldn't know how many hundreds of civilian cars and its passengers were "murdered" during the Iraq invasion and occupation - later on especially near coalition military installations. As such no war going nation on this planet can say or claim for itself being innocent of these issues.

The Americans foremost paid load's of money directly and indirectly to Germany in order to "neutralize" the prevailing antipathy held by most Germans after the war.
Maybe the Czar will do the same? if not he will still find "his" reasons for justifying the "horrors of war"
In case he should even win this Ukraine invasion (God forbid) - the Czar will be dictating the books as to who's fault it was - off course the USA and their NATO serfs, who else?
As to how much the remaining beaten Ukrainians are going to agree towards his interpretation? we will see.

Regards
Jagdflieger

Murdered civilians near coalition installations during the Iraq war. Huh? I don't remember any of that happening while I was there? Hmmm…

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

USA and their NATO serfs…

lol

What a joke.

 

[Jagdflieger]

USA and their NATO serfs…

lol

What a joke.

To you and me, but not to the Czar and those willing to listen to him.

You already forgot these mowed down convoys including hundreds of civilian vehicles? And I am sure that many civilian occupied vehicles were being shot at by Coalition forces
that were simply afraid of maybe getting blown up by some suicide bomber. In any film footage one can see dozens of burned out and shot up civilian vehicles in front of check-points
and military installations.

Regards
Jagdflieger

 

[GrauGeist]

To you and me, but not to the Czar and those willing to listen to him.

You already forgot these mowed down convoys including hundreds of civilian vehicles? And I am sure that many civilian occupied vehicles were being shot at by Coalition forces
that were simply afraid of maybe getting blown up by some suicide bomber. In any film footage one can see dozens of burned out and shot up civilian vehicles in front of check-points
and military installations.

Regards
Jagdflieger

You were there and saw this first hand?

 

[MIflyer]

Admittedly, this comes from the notorious Creative News Network, but what it makes clear is that small commercially available drones are a game changer to an extent I do not think anyone has realized. We tend to focus on the Predators, Trusted Wingman, MQ-25, and other full sized drones, but the small OTS ones can have a very large impact. This is a new kind of Airpower.

 

[Jagdflieger]

You were there and saw this first hand?

If you prefer to shut your eyes towards actual occurrences and hundreds of interviews and articles by our "free Western press" - up to you.

Regards
Iagdflieger