"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (6 Viewers)

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First and foremost, Ukrainians as a people failed Ukraine. They've been independent since the early 1990s, and yet allowed their country to remain a quagmire of corruption, unwilling to eradicate the Russian connections throughout its economy, military and government. In 2014 the Ukrainians fled Crimea without firing a shot. One might have asked in 2014, why should the West act if Ukrainians would not?
I know that I'm the worst enemy of myself. So, in the "philosophical" discussion taking place in some ivory tower, far away from the battlefields, I could agree that Ukrainians failed Ukraine; they were their worst enemies, etc. (We can extend the list to Poles who failed Poland in 1939, Chinese in 1937, etc.).
Real life was more complicated. Just to remind some facts:
1. Budapest Memorandum, where Ukrainian security was "assured" by "great powers".
2. Positive attitude among the Ukrainian public towards the Russian Federation until the end of 2013-2014.
3. Attempts of the Ukrainian leadership to eradicate those Russian connections were not supported by the West. Even more, Ukrainians were lectured more than once about the importance of keeping historical ties with Russia. Chicken Kyiv speech was not an accidental or isolated event.
4. Contrary to popular belief, shots were fired in Crimea in 2014.
5. After Crimea, Ukrainians did act, despite all complications of hybrid warfare, confusion and against the mighty enemy. Volunteers and paramilitary units were first, and the Army followed them.
6. President Poroshenko was in Washington in September 2014. Russian artillery has been firing across- border since the end of June. Russian mercenaries haven't hidden their presence since April. Russian regular troops have been in Ukraine since August. Poroshenko asked for military aid. He thanked the USA for the non-lethal support provided, and he said that "we cannot win the war with blankets". First Western lethal aid will arrive 4 years later.
7. MH 17 was shot down by a Russian missile. Most passengers were from the "West". Ukraine did its part by allowing the Netherlands to take over the investigation and by providing support. Did the West act - not to help Ukraine but to hold the killers of Western civilians accountable? Rhetorical question.
 
First and foremost, Ukrainians as a people failed Ukraine. They've been independent since the early 1990s, and yet allowed their country to remain a quagmire of corruption, unwilling to eradicate the Russian connections throughout its economy, military and government. In 2014 the Ukrainians fled Crimea without firing a shot. One might have asked in 2014, why should the West act if Ukrainians would not?
Hmm, sounds a bit like victim blaming to me.
In what world would we allow oppressive regimes to overpower their neighbouring countries? Maybe you don't care, you think Russia is powerless to do more harm, but what signal does this give to, say, the Chinese?

I'm in Europe and I'm not at all happy with a neighbouring Russia, that is potentially aggressive. You probably feel very secure, far away in your cozy Canada, but there is a reason why I keep on pointing at the danger of appeasement policy. We've seen the world disaster that came from it. I learned from it and so did others.
 
Maybe you don't care..
you think..
You probably feel very secure..
That's a lot of accusations and assumptions, but you don't know what I care about, think, or how I feel. So, why not just speak for yourself? As for my post above, I'm attempting to look at potential reasons why the West did not act in Ukraine's defence. I expect that in 2022 many in the West, remembering Ukraine's capitulation in 2014, expected Kyiv to rapidly fall in 2022. It was only after the world saw these plucky Ukrainians kicking incompetent and demonstrably-genocidal Russian ass on all fronts, especially the battle for Hostomel Airport that the collective West self identified with the Ukrainians and demanded that their governments send arms. It's too bad that it took a second invasion to kickstart the West. Imagine if Ukraine of Dec 2021 had the Western arms and financial backing it had in Dec 2022.
 
[...] but you don't know what I care about, think, or how I feel. [...]

To be fair, your thoughts and feelings can be gleaned from your posts, which presumably express your thoughts and feelings accurately. People may disagree with you, but you're a fairly straightforward guy who doesn't beat around the bush. Dismissing their disagreements by arguing that they don't know your thoughts and feelings is disingenuous when those are exactly what you've been expressing.

Imagine if Ukraine of Dec 2021 had the Western arms and financial backing it had in Dec 2022.

If grasshoppers had tail-gunners you'd see a lot of dead blue-jays laying around.
 
rob.jpg
....for the grasshoppers
 
That's a lot of accusations and assumptions, but you don't know what I care about, think, or how I feel. So, why not just speak for yourself? As for my post above, I'm attempting to look at potential reasons why the West did not act in Ukraine's defence. I expect that in 2022 many in the West, remembering Ukraine's capitulation in 2014, expected Kyiv to rapidly fall in 2022. It was only after the world saw these plucky Ukrainians kicking incompetent and demonstrably-genocidal Russian ass on all fronts, especially the battle for Hostomel Airport that the collective West self identified with the Ukrainians and demanded that their governments send arms. It's too bad that it took a second invasion to kickstart the West. Imagine if Ukraine of Dec 2021 had the Western arms and financial backing it had in Dec 2022.
Accusations? Hardly. Assumptions, that's what the word "maybe" indicates.

I'm just trying to figure out your intentions with the posts you make here. Maybe I'm interpreting them wrong. That would not be surprising, given that I'm not a native speaker.

I fully agree with your last remarks. We (the "West") have been naive and incompetent.
 
First and foremost, Ukrainians as a people failed Ukraine. They've been independent since the early 1990s, and yet allowed their country to remain a quagmire of corruption, unwilling to eradicate the Russian connections throughout its economy, military and government. In 2014 the Ukrainians fled Crimea without firing a shot. One might have asked in 2014, why should the West act if Ukrainians would not?
To be fair with Ukrainians, they have been fighting a war with Russia (in the Donbas) since April 2014. The 2022 invasion is just an escalation (by Russia) of this war.

It's OK to ask why should the west act between February 2014 and April 2014. After that date it's not.
 
looks and sounds a bit like V1 flying bomb, hopefully with better accuracy
 

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