All good points, but one big difference is Hitler was facing invading Allied armies from both sides. Putin is facing a proxy war because the West is afraid to call his nuclear card.
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (2 Viewers)
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Admiral Beez
Major
The West is enjoying the best of both worlds. They get to use their latest weapons to stomp and humiliate a clearly militarily obsolete and incompetent Russia whilst not overly risking a nuclear war. If you're a Western government, especially its Defence and State Departments, or even better, a Western arms manufacturer, what's not to like? Plus they get to show a flick of the sword to warn China and reassure Taiwan that territories that breakaway from despots to become western democracies will be supported/defended.
This war with Russia is the first time I think in my lifetime (b.1971) where the West has a clear binary war to fight. There is a clear bad guy; despotic, murderous Russia and a clear good guy; democratic, heroic Ukraine. Everything else up to now has seen the West stomping North Africans, Middle Easterners and Latin Americans for ambiguous WoT and/or WoD goals, oil/resource access, backing up friendly tyrants, regime change, etc. But this is as close to a localized WW2 fight between clearly good and bad as we can get.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
It doesn't matter what happens in a Guterres/Putin meeting if the Ukrainians will not accede to the lost territories, and Zelenskyy has already said that he won't.
Meanwhile:
More heavy fighting was reported today in eastern and southern Ukraine as Russia continues its assault, although Ukrainian military officials say they've repelled attacks in some areas.
Ukrainian officials describe ground assaults and artillery strikes by the Russian army along much of the front. Oleksandr Shtupun, a spokesman for Ukraine's armed forces, says Ukraine's army pushed back assaults in the Donbas region.
"Six enemy attacks have been repelled," Shtupun says, "with four Russian tanks and five Russian artillery systems destroyed."
The latest fighting comes as U.S. officials plan to meet in Europe with other NATO countries in a bid to increase military support for Ukraine.
In an interview with state television, meanwhile, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said NATO's support for Ukraine heightens the danger of nuclear war, adding that "the risks are now considerable."
War in Ukraine live updates: The U.N. predicts more than 8 million people will flee Ukraine as refugees
The number is more than double what the U.N.'s refugee agency projected in February when Russia invaded the country. The vast majority of those who have already left are women and children.
www.npr.org
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
If you recall, prior to the U.S. entry into WWII, the U.S. was supplying material to Britain as they were managing to hold off Germany.
Then when Germany turned on the Soviet Union, the Allies provided material to them.
The entire world is sending aid to the Ukraine, not just "the West".
If the world had responded to Poland the same way in 1939, things would have been quite different.
Poland's fate would not have changed. They were dealing with two aggressors invading from the east and west. Furthermore, everything would have taken longer to be shipped. Today munitions and equipment can be put on aircraft and in a matter of hours are on the ground. Back then everything would have taken weeks and travelled by boat across vast oceans, then most likely per rail to its ultimate destination.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
There's a big difference: geography. With Ukraine, the world can funnel supplies through the Polish border. In 1939, there was no way to get aid to Poland, aside from trying to force the Skagerrak with aid convoys past U-boats. I suppose you could ship to the Med and then across the Balkans, but by the time the first trainload arrives the Germans and Russians are toasting their success.
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
Furthermore, supplies would have had to be shipped through a friendly nation to get to Poland. There weren't any adjacent to Poland. Germany and the Slovakian puppet state and the USSR were hostile aggressors. Hungary and Romania were pro-axis neutrals. The Baltic was controlled by the German Navy.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Well, many nations supplied Finland during the Soviet Union's "special operation", too.
But my point about Poland, was if the world responded in the same fashion (at the time) as it has done with Ukraine today, the situation may have had a different outcome.
But my point about Poland, was if the world responded in the same fashion (at the time) as it has done with Ukraine today, the situation may have had a different outcome.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Thanks,
Greg Boeser
, couldn't remember the political stances of the Balkan countries on that hypothetical route.
Poland's goose was cooked even before the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact, though, as the Poles refused to permit Soviet forces on their soil, while the French and British were relying on the Soviets to help out after the former had given their vapid guarantees to Poland.
Greg Boeser
, couldn't remember the political stances of the Balkan countries on that hypothetical route.Poland's goose was cooked even before the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact, though, as the Poles refused to permit Soviet forces on their soil, while the French and British were relying on the Soviets to help out after the former had given their vapid guarantees to Poland.
This too.
A
Admiral Beez
, how would you get supplies to Poland in 1939 with enough time to change the outcome? Don't just disagree, explain why you disagree. Otherwise there is no point to the discussion.
What countries were the US, England, France, let alone the "rest of the world" going to funnel supplies through?
What country in 1939 was prepared and had the stocks to supply Poland with munitions and equipment?
What countries were the US, England, France, let alone the "rest of the world" going to funnel supplies through?
What country in 1939 was prepared and had the stocks to supply Poland with munitions and equipment?
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Bolster Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia's defenses and use them as a supply corridor.
Escuadrilla Azul
Tech Sergeant
- 1,805
- Feb 27, 2020
I think Hungary at the time (summer 1939) was more pro polish and less Axis leaning.
The fought a war with recent born Slovakia in March 1939 just to recover some territory and get a common border with Poland.
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,607
- May 13, 2018
Don't forget the US was training with broomstick machineguns and trucks for tanks. The first prototypes of WW2 workhorse aircraft were making their first flights & production lines being set up. What could we send?
fubar57
General
Right now I'm reading all the LIFE magazines pertaining to the war years. Interesting to see what Life knew then and what we know now. The last issue I read had air spotter silhouettes for all U.S. military aircraft except the B-19 which was still top secret in 1941 according to LIFE
That is certainly an option, however, it does not change how the munitions and equipment was going to be transported, and the amount of time needed to transport.
Remember the discussion was about had the world responded to the invasion of Poland in 1939 as they had to the invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
Admiral Beez
Major
This is not the place. The point of this discussion is Ukraine. I disagree with your post but disagree more with taking threads off topic.
But it would be a good topic as a new thread. How to help Poland before Sept 1939?
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We always allow a lil bit of off topic banter as long as it is related to the topic. Its part of healthy discussion.
But sure, go ahead and start a new thread. I want to hear how the "rest of the world" was going to get massive amounts of supplies to Poland after Germany and Russia invaded, because that is what you disagreed with.
