"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (8 Viewers)

[Admiral Beez]

This is interesting.... an admission of how close the US shared its intel and how deep their sources are.

U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops

U.S. intel helped Ukraine shoot down Russian plane carrying troops

Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[gumbyk]

This is interesting.... an admission of how close the US shared its intel and how deep their sources are.

U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops

U.S. intel helped Ukraine shoot down Russian plane carrying troops

Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

Apparently there was a US intel aircraft in the region when the Moskva was hit too.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Raytheon Technologies, the maker of the thousands of Stinger missiles sent to Ukraine amid its war with Russia, will not be able to quickly produce more of the weapons due to lack of parts and materials, the company's CEO said Tuesday.

Raytheon won't be able to ramp up production of Stinger anti-aircraft systems until at least 2023, as the company must "redesign some of the electronics in the missile and the seeker head," due to some components no longer being commercially available, CEO Greg Hayes told investors during a Tuesday earnings call.

That redesign is "going to take us a little bit of time," Hayes said.

In addition, Raytheon's production line is only able to build a limited number of Stingers and will need a big commitment from the U.S. government to fund a sharp increase in production, factors that mean missile assembly won't be ramped up until next year at the earliest, he predicted.

The United States has given more than $3.7 billion in military assistance to Ukraine since Russia invaded the country on Feb. 24. That amount includes more than 1,400 Stingers, which are portable systems that can be used to shoot down aircraft and drones.

European nations have also pulled hundreds of Stingers from their stockpiles for Kyiv.

But until the war, the Army had been moving to retire Stingers, moving instead toward a new portable anti-air missile to be built by 2028.

That drawdown means a slowed timeline to replenish stocks.

"We've been working with the [Defense Department] for the last couple of weeks, we're actively trying to source some of the material, but unfortunately, DOD hasn't bought a Stinger in about 18 years and some of the components are no longer commercially available," Hayes said.

Raytheon CEO warns of delays in Stinger missile production

Raytheon Technologies, the maker of the thousands of Stinger missiles sent to Ukraine amid its war with Russia, will not be able to quickly produce more of the weapons due to lack of parts and mate…

thehill.com

As mentioned upthread, while our stocks are being drawn down, we may have to wait some time to replenish them.

I'm okay with it, myself, given that we'll likely not be facing any other demands in the next few years. But this is certainly something to think about.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Raytheon Technologies, the maker of the thousands of Stinger missiles sent to Ukraine amid its war with Russia, will not be able to quickly produce more of the weapons due to lack of parts and materials, the company's CEO said Tuesday.

Raytheon won't be able to ramp up production of Stinger anti-aircraft systems until at least 2023, as the company must "redesign some of the electronics in the missile and the seeker head," due to some components no longer being commercially available, CEO Greg Hayes told investors during a Tuesday earnings call.

That redesign is "going to take us a little bit of time," Hayes said.

In addition, Raytheon's production line is only able to build a limited number of Stingers and will need a big commitment from the U.S. government to fund a sharp increase in production, factors that mean missile assembly won't be ramped up until next year at the earliest, he predicted.

The United States has given more than $3.7 billion in military assistance to Ukraine since Russia invaded the country on Feb. 24. That amount includes more than 1,400 Stingers, which are portable systems that can be used to shoot down aircraft and drones.

European nations have also pulled hundreds of Stingers from their stockpiles for Kyiv.

But until the war, the Army had been moving to retire Stingers, moving instead toward a new portable anti-air missile to be built by 2028.

That drawdown means a slowed timeline to replenish stocks.

"We've been working with the [Defense Department] for the last couple of weeks, we're actively trying to source some of the material, but unfortunately, DOD hasn't bought a Stinger in about 18 years and some of the components are no longer commercially available," Hayes said.

Raytheon CEO warns of delays in Stinger missile production

Raytheon Technologies, the maker of the thousands of Stinger missiles sent to Ukraine amid its war with Russia, will not be able to quickly produce more of the weapons due to lack of parts and mate…

thehill.com

As mentioned upthread, while our stocks are being drawn down, we may have to wait some time to replenish them.

I'm okay with it, myself, given that we'll likely not be facing any other demands in the next few years. But this is certainly something to think about.

There are only two likely targets for US Army or USMC deployed Stingers; Russian or Chinese combat aircraft. The Ukrainians are handling the former by proxy well enough. Better to use them and reduce Russian's air force, then to let them expire or become obsolete.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Ah, so now we know the game! Russia feints with its invasion of Ukraine, drawing down weapons stockpiles in Western nations. Then China, while everyone is distracted, invades Taiwan. Noone can stop them because everyone is out of ammunition!
Those Chinese! So clever!

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

There are only two likely targets for US Army or USMC deployed Stingers; Russian or Chinese combat aircraft. The Ukrainians are handling the former by proxy well enough. Better to use them and reduce Russian's air force, then to let them expire or become obsolete.

Right, but the point is that they're using existing stock without a working production line to replace those missiles. That stock was to tide the US Army over until the Stinger's replacement came available in five or six years.

Now, there's a shortfall, and no production to make up for it. That's the problem, and the point of my post.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Now, there's a shortfall, and no production to make up for it. That's the problem, and the point of my post.

I'm glad we found out now that the potential burn rate far exceeds the likely replacement rate. Had a conventional WW3 really broken out in Europe presumably the US would have used their Stingers at an even faster rate. Didn't the US expect to need these things in a hurry one day?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm glad we found out now that the potential burn rate far exceeds the likely replacement rate. Had a conventional WW3 really broken out in Europe presumably the US would have used their Stingers at an even faster rate. Didn't the US expect to need these things in a hurry one day?

You're probably going to use fewer Stingers when you have air superiority or supremacy, along with multiple Patriot layouts ... just sayin'.

 

[SaparotRob]

I'm sure the merry little elves who tinker away at things that go boom have lots of goodies under development. While the stockpile of Stingers are going down, what were they supposed to be used against? Exactly, the Russian stuff going boom right now. Bet we have other goodies in store that have components not made out of Unobtainium. It will take a few years for Russia to restock the best of what they lost. The SU-57 might be the best plane in the sky, both of them! China is still a little too far away to be a Stinger level threat, if we don't wind up having to fight the Battle of the Coral Sea, Guadalcanal, Milne Bay,....2.0 any time soon. The elves in Taiwan must be as busy as beavers right now.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The elves in Taiwan must be as busy as beavers right now.

No doubt China is cursing Putin right now.

 

[Greg Boeser]

This is interesting.... an admission of how close the US shared its intel and how deep their sources are.

U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops

U.S. intel helped Ukraine shoot down Russian plane carrying troops

Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

As a former intel guy, stories like this make me cringe.
Don't we practice OPSEC any more? Protect sources and methods? Plausible deniability?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Stingers were but one element of a layered air-defense system composed of fighters, long-range missiles, and point-defense missiles. The Ukrainians lack both fighters and long-range missiles, so of course their use of Stingers is going to be heavy. Couple that with our own assumptions about our own use, and changing over to a replacement, and you can see how there could be a shortfall.

 

[SaparotRob]

As a former intel guy, stories like this make me cringe.
Don't we practice OPSEC any more? Protect sources and methods? Plausible deniability?

Sending a message that doesn't need to be decoded?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As a former intel guy, stories like this make me cringe.
Don't we practice OPSEC any more? Protect sources and methods? Plausible deniability?

Sources and methods is a valid concern, but I don't think America is very interested in deniability any more. Releasing intel like this is likely as much political as anything else -- as Rob said, messaging.

It's a different approach that so far seems to be paying dividends so far as we can tell.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I wonder what model of transport aircraft the Ukrainians downed on those first days. If it had several hundred men on board as claimed it would need to be big. I haven't heard of any evidence of a major crash site in Ukraine.

 

[vikingBerserker]

I remember a troop plane being downed, but I didn't hear it carried several hundred men

EDIT: Supposedly Il-76's which are not small!

 

[Admiral Beez]

I remember a troop plane being downed, but I didn't hear it carried several hundred men

EDIT: Supposedly Il-76's which are not small!

There was one more recently downed near Odessa, but the above article suggests a transport heading for the Ukrainian air base north of Kiyv was shot down in those early days of late February or early March.

Military transport plane reportedly brought down outside Odesa – as it happened

Ukraine president says situation in Mariupol remains ‘extremely severe’ as Moscow tells port city’s remaining defenders to ‘surrender or die’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

I never know if these tabloid sites can be trusted, but here goes…

Two Russian transport planes shot down around Kyiv, Ukraine says - Washington Examiner

At least two Russian military transport planes have been shot down by Ukrainian air defenses, Ukrainian officials said early Saturday morning.An IL-76 heavy transport plane was shot down near Vasylkiv, a city roughly 25 miles south of Kyiv, said Ukraine’s top general, Valeriy Zaluzhniy. The Kyiv...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[wlewisiii]

I never know if these tabloid sites can be trusted, but here goes…

Two Russian transport planes shot down around Kyiv, Ukraine says - Washington Examiner

At least two Russian military transport planes have been shot down by Ukrainian air defenses, Ukrainian officials said early Saturday morning.An IL-76 heavy transport plane was shot down near Vasylkiv, a city roughly 25 miles south of Kyiv, said Ukraine’s top general, Valeriy Zaluzhniy. The Kyiv...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Definitely not a source to trust. One step above the National Enquirer... maybe.

 

[Jagdflieger]

I really like this decision...it gives the Ukrainian military an additional dimension of air defence. It's incredibly frustrating, however, to see the news media referring to these as "tanks."

Depends as to what you would like to call or refer to a tracked vehicle weighing 48t - 53t and able to dispense (660) APDS tungsten rounds in rapid fire succession via 2x35mm cannons that can easily destroy/disable a T-62 to T-72 tank. It's not necessary to "only" use the Flakpanzer Gepard in the AA role.
It was designed to accompany armored units onto the battlefield - to provide AA cover with 620 rounds and additionally fitted with (40) anti-tank rounds for self-defense against AFV's and MBT's.