"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (4 Viewers)

[Jagdflieger]

Until your post i've wondered why German government is so pushy with closing it's nuclear power plants... but now it become quite clear. I have some doubts in relation to your professional level - you have intentionally breached security regulations and you are announcing this publicly - well... don't you think something is wrong here?

There is IMO nothing wrong with hinting or even stating certain issues that are well known within certain communities. This is not "007" stuff, it's general knowledge. And did I state any countries names?
What I find questionable is the issue of e.g. you previously stating (that someone has obviously no clue)
So I can answer - yes I admit I don't, or should I forward exact information as to how it is done (e.g. via a publicly printed issue such as the German nuclear plant incident) or actual insider information to proof a point? or naming sources in order to be judged more viable by those asking?
I hope that we are a bit more clear now - regards
Jagdflieger

 

[Admiral Beez]

Would you mind answering the question I asked? What do you mean when you called one of my points "creative"?

Creative, 2. resulting from originality of thought; imaginative. I thought it was insightful to compare the invention of the internet to the invention and subsequent proliferation of earlier technological innovations. Do you ask why others click Winner or Like after your posts? Or is the Creative button a singular trigger for you? I meant no cheekiness, I thought your post was creative in the above sense. But really, what others think really shouldn't be that important. Who cares what they liked or thought was "winner" worthy?

Now, let's bring ourselves back on topic. Interestingly, Russia is doubling down on their connecting Israel and Ukrainian's supposed Nazi regime.

Kremlin again targets Israel with claims of supporting ‘neo-Nazi regime’ in Ukraine

The Russian Foreign Ministry accused Israel of supporting a “neo-Nazi regime” in Ukraine Tuesday, a day after Israel’s chief diplomat demanded an apology from his counterpart Sergey Lavrov fo…

nypost.com

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Creative, 2. resulting from originality of thought; imaginative. I thought it was insightful to compare the invention of the internet to the invention and subsequent proliferation of earlier technological innovations.

And then there are those who take the "Creative" icon to imply "created out of whole cloth with no supporting logic", which is why I try to avoid using it on this forum, even when it might be warranted.

 

[Jagdflieger]

In addition there are contingency plans. I don't know about other countries but the UK have a number of plans to protect and / or limit the damage......

Does this mean that a cyber attack couldn't do damage, clearly no, only a fool would give that guarantee. But when you consider the above plus the difficulty in knocking out Gas, Solar, Wind, Coal, and Nuclear sites all at the same time, its as safe as you are likely to get.

Its also worth pointing out that there have been a few days in the UK where all the power was generated by renewables, which give an extra layer of protection should some stations be knocked out.

Please don't get me wrong, but the "common term" cyber warfare isn't simply about hacking or causing a serious incident (off course one can't simply out-rule the latter)
Cyber warfare encompasses all kind of interwoven levels/layers in order to create difficulties in whatever regards - including disinformation and resulting panic.

Simply disrupting or interfering in the operation of e.g. a nuke power plant (which IMO is quite a realistic scenario) and in parallel lancing/leaking information to the media of such an "incident" can and will cause the political landscape and decision making process of many EU countries to be "unbalanced".

E.g. the Green party in Germany was nowhere in view of it's political agenda in regards to "environment" or "rather red then dead" of being a political force to be reckoned with - until Chernobyl. But I will leave it up to the forum members to decide if their today's political force is evaluated as being rather positive or negative. But thanks to the media they are a political force that meanwhile beholds up to 40% of the populations support.

I do hope that you get my meaning - because I hate to get myself into politics

 

[buffnut453]

Please don't get me wrong, but the "common term" cyber warfare isn't simply about hacking or causing a serious incident (off course one can't simply out-rule the latter)
Cyber warfare encompasses all kind of interwoven levels/layers in order to create difficulties in whatever regards - including disinformation and resulting panic.

Simply disrupting or interfering in the operation of e.g. a nuke power plant (which IMO is quite a realistic scenario) and in parallel lancing/leaking information to the media of such an "incident" can and will cause the political landscape and decision making process of many EU countries to be "unbalanced".

Well, that rather depends on whose doctrine you're reading or adhering to. In the US, there's Defensive Cyber Operations to protect friendly networks and Offensive Cyber Operations which directly attack adversary networks.

Disinformation falls under Information Operations. Just because the IO message is delivered via the internet does not make it a cyber operation.

Other countries, of course, have different definitions and doctrine, so you can't make a blanket statement about what "cyber warfare" includes or doesn't include. US doctrine on cyber operations (Joint Publication 3-12...it's available online) does not even include the term "cyber warfare."

 

[Admiral Beez]

U.S. intelligence is helping Ukraine kill Russian generals, officials say.

WASHINGTON — The United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.

Ukrainian officials said they have killed approximately 12 generals on the front lines, a number that has astonished military analysts.

The targeting help is part of a classified effort by the Biden administration to provide real-time battlefield intelligence to Ukraine. That intelligence also includes anticipated Russian troop movements gleaned from recent American assessments of Moscow's secret battle plan for the fighting in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, the officials said. Officials declined to specify how many generals had been killed as a result of U.S. assistance.
The United States has focused on providing the location and other details about the Russian military's mobile headquarters, which relocate frequently. Ukrainian officials have combined that geographic information with their own intelligence — including intercepted communications that alert the Ukrainian military to the presence of senior Russian officers — to conduct artillery strikes and other attacks that have killed Russian officers.
The intelligence sharing is part of a stepped-up flow in U.S. assistance that includes heavier weapons and tens of billions in aid, demonstrating how quickly the early American restraints on support for Ukraine have shifted as the war enters a new stage that could play out over months.
U.S. intelligence support to the Ukrainians has had a decisive effect on the battlefield, confirming targets identified by the Ukrainian military and pointing it to new targets. The flow of actionable intelligence on the movement of Russian troops that America has given Ukraine has few precedents.
Since failing to advance on Kyiv, the capital, in the early part of the war, Russia has tried to regroup, with a more concentrated push in eastern Ukraine that so far has moved slowly and unevenly.
Officials interviewed for this article spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss details of the classified intelligence being shared with Ukraine.
The administration has sought to keep much of the battlefield intelligence secret, out of fear it will be seen as an escalation and provoke President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia into a wider war. American officials would not describe how they have acquired information on Russian troop headquarters, for fear of endangering their methods of collection. But throughout the war, the U.S. intelligence agencies have used a variety of sources, including classified and commercial satellites, to trace Russian troop movements.
Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III went so far as to say last month that "we want to see Russia weakened to the degree it cannot do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine."
Asked about the intelligence being provided to the Ukrainians, John F. Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said that "we will not speak to the details of that information." But he acknowledged that the United States provides "Ukraine with information and intelligence that they can use to defend themselves."
After this article published, Adrienne Watson, a National Security Council spokeswoman, said in a statement that the battlefield intelligence was not provided to the Ukrainians "with the intent to kill Russian generals."
Not all the strikes have been carried out with American intelligence. A strike over the weekend at a location in eastern Ukraine where Gen. Valery Gerasimov, Russia's highest-ranking uniformed officer, had visited was not aided by American intelligence, according to multiple U.S. officials. The United States prohibits itself from providing intelligence about the most senior Russian leaders, officials said.
Image

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and Gen. Valery Gerasimov, Russia's highest-ranking uniformed officer. Ukrainians struck a location where Gen. Gerasimov had visited, acting on their intelligence.Credit...Sergei Guneyev/Sputnik, via Agence France-Presse
But American intelligence was critical in the deaths of other generals, officials acknowledged.
The United States routinely provides information about the movement of Russian troops and equipment, and helps Ukraine confirm the location of critical targets. Other NATO allies also give real-time intelligence to the Ukrainian military.
The Biden administration is also supplying new weaponry that should improve Ukraine's ability to target senior Russian officers. The smaller version of the Switchblade drone, which is now arriving on the battlefield, can be used to identify and kill individual soldiers, and could take out a general sitting in a vehicle or giving orders on a front line.
American officials have acknowledged publicly that the United States began giving Ukraine actionable intelligence in the run-up to Russia's invasion on Feb. 24. Ahead of the invasion, for example, U.S. intelligence agencies warned of an impending attack on the Hostomel airport north of Kyiv. That allowed Ukraine to strengthen its defenses. Russian airborne forces were ultimately unable to hold the airfield.
While the information the United States has provided Ukraine has proved valuable, Russian generals have often left themselves exposed to electronic eavesdropping by speaking over unsecure phones and radios, current and former American military officials said.
"It shows poor discipline, lack of experience, arrogance and failure to appreciate Ukrainian capabilities," said Frederick B. Hodges, the former top U.S. Army commander in Europe who is now with the Center for European Policy Analysis. "It is not hard to geo-locate someone on a phone talking in the clear."
Russian military tactics have also left senior generals vulnerable. A centralized, top-down command hierarchy gives decision-making authority only to the highest levels — compared to the more decentralized American structure that pushes many battlefield decisions to senior enlisted personnel and junior officers — forcing Russian generals to make risky trips to the front lines to resolve logistical and operational issues.
"When there are problems, the general officers have to go sort it out," said General Hodges.
Although the administration remains wary of inflaming Mr. Putin to the point that he further escalates his attacks — President Biden has said he will not send American troops to Ukraine or establish a "no-fly zone" there — current and former officials said the White House finds some value in warning Russia that Ukraine has the weight of the United States and NATO behind it.
Image

Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III went so far as to say last month that "we want to see Russia weakened to the degree it cannot do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine."Credit...Michael A. McCoy for The New York Times
Some European officials believe, despite Mr. Putin's rhetoric that Russia is battling NATO and the West, he has so far been deterred from starting a wider war. American officials are less certain, and have been debating for weeks why Mr. Putin has not done more to escalate the conflict.
Officials said Moscow has its own calculations to weigh, including whether it can handle a bigger war, particularly one that would allow NATO to invoke its mutual defense charter or enter the war more directly.
"Clearly, we want the Russians to know on some level that we are helping the Ukrainians to this extent, and we will continue to do so," said Evelyn Farkas, the former top Defense Department official for Russia and Ukraine in the Obama administration. "We will give them everything they need to win, and we're not afraid of Vladimir Putin's reaction to that. We won't be self-deterred."
But intelligence sharing is considered a safe form of help because it is invisible, or, at least, deniable. American intelligence has given secret information to Ukraine in a wide range of areas, from Russian troop movements to targeting data, officials said.
Last month, the United States increased the flow of intelligence to Ukraine about Russian forces in the Donbas and Crimea, as Kyiv's military forces prepared to defend against a renewed offensive by Moscow in eastern Ukraine, U.S. officials said.
"There's a significant amount of intelligence flowing to Ukraine from the United States," Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate panel on Tuesday. "We have opened up the pipes."

 

[Jagdflieger]

....Disinformation falls under Information Operations. Just because the IO message is delivered via the internet does not make it a cyber operation.....

Well - certain disinformation and cyber-operations e.g in country X are not run by separate government "institutions" - just separate but coordinated departments.
Which in some "other" countries does sometimes lead to the issues that different services aren't in the full picture even with each other.

 

[Jagdflieger]

U.S. intelligence is helping Ukraine kill Russian generals, officials say.

WASHINGTON — The United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.

Ukrainian officials said they have killed approximately 12 generals on the front lines, a number that has astonished military analysts.

The targeting help is part of a classified effort by the Biden administration to provide real-time battlefield intelligence to Ukraine. That intelligence also includes anticipated Russian troop movements gleaned from recent American assessments of Moscow's secret battle plan for the fighting in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, the officials said. Officials declined to specify how many generals had been killed as a result of U.S. assistance.
The United States has focused on providing the location and other details about the Russian military's mobile headquarters, which relocate frequently. Ukrainian officials have combined that geographic information with their own intelligence — including intercepted communications that alert the Ukrainian military to the presence of senior Russian officers — to conduct artillery strikes and other attacks that have killed Russian officers.
The intelligence sharing is part of a stepped-up flow in U.S. assistance that includes heavier weapons and tens of billions in aid, demonstrating how quickly the early American restraints on support for Ukraine have shifted as the war enters a new stage that could play out over months.
U.S. intelligence support to the Ukrainians has had a decisive effect on the battlefield, confirming targets identified by the Ukrainian military and pointing it to new targets. The flow of actionable intelligence on the movement of Russian troops that America has given Ukraine has few precedents.
Since failing to advance on Kyiv, the capital, in the early part of the war, Russia has tried to regroup, with a more concentrated push in eastern Ukraine that so far has moved slowly and unevenly.
Officials interviewed for this article spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss details of the classified intelligence being shared with Ukraine.
The administration has sought to keep much of the battlefield intelligence secret, out of fear it will be seen as an escalation and provoke President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia into a wider war. American officials would not describe how they have acquired information on Russian troop headquarters, for fear of endangering their methods of collection. But throughout the war, the U.S. intelligence agencies have used a variety of sources, including classified and commercial satellites, to trace Russian troop movements.
Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III went so far as to say last month that "we want to see Russia weakened to the degree it cannot do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine."
Asked about the intelligence being provided to the Ukrainians, John F. Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said that "we will not speak to the details of that information." But he acknowledged that the United States provides "Ukraine with information and intelligence that they can use to defend themselves."
After this article published, Adrienne Watson, a National Security Council spokeswoman, said in a statement that the battlefield intelligence was not provided to the Ukrainians "with the intent to kill Russian generals."
Not all the strikes have been carried out with American intelligence. A strike over the weekend at a location in eastern Ukraine where Gen. Valery Gerasimov, Russia's highest-ranking uniformed officer, had visited was not aided by American intelligence, according to multiple U.S. officials. The United States prohibits itself from providing intelligence about the most senior Russian leaders, officials said.
Image
View attachment 666949
President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and Gen. Valery Gerasimov, Russia's highest-ranking uniformed officer. Ukrainians struck a location where Gen. Gerasimov had visited, acting on their intelligence.Credit...Sergei Guneyev/Sputnik, via Agence France-Presse
But American intelligence was critical in the deaths of other generals, officials acknowledged.
The United States routinely provides information about the movement of Russian troops and equipment, and helps Ukraine confirm the location of critical targets. Other NATO allies also give real-time intelligence to the Ukrainian military.
The Biden administration is also supplying new weaponry that should improve Ukraine's ability to target senior Russian officers. The smaller version of the Switchblade drone, which is now arriving on the battlefield, can be used to identify and kill individual soldiers, and could take out a general sitting in a vehicle or giving orders on a front line.
American officials have acknowledged publicly that the United States began giving Ukraine actionable intelligence in the run-up to Russia's invasion on Feb. 24. Ahead of the invasion, for example, U.S. intelligence agencies warned of an impending attack on the Hostomel airport north of Kyiv. That allowed Ukraine to strengthen its defenses. Russian airborne forces were ultimately unable to hold the airfield.
While the information the United States has provided Ukraine has proved valuable, Russian generals have often left themselves exposed to electronic eavesdropping by speaking over unsecure phones and radios, current and former American military officials said.
"It shows poor discipline, lack of experience, arrogance and failure to appreciate Ukrainian capabilities," said Frederick B. Hodges, the former top U.S. Army commander in Europe who is now with the Center for European Policy Analysis. "It is not hard to geo-locate someone on a phone talking in the clear."
Russian military tactics have also left senior generals vulnerable. A centralized, top-down command hierarchy gives decision-making authority only to the highest levels — compared to the more decentralized American structure that pushes many battlefield decisions to senior enlisted personnel and junior officers — forcing Russian generals to make risky trips to the front lines to resolve logistical and operational issues.
"When there are problems, the general officers have to go sort it out," said General Hodges.
Although the administration remains wary of inflaming Mr. Putin to the point that he further escalates his attacks — President Biden has said he will not send American troops to Ukraine or establish a "no-fly zone" there — current and former officials said the White House finds some value in warning Russia that Ukraine has the weight of the United States and NATO behind it.
Image
View attachment 666950
Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III went so far as to say last month that "we want to see Russia weakened to the degree it cannot do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine."Credit...Michael A. McCoy for The New York Times
Some European officials believe, despite Mr. Putin's rhetoric that Russia is battling NATO and the West, he has so far been deterred from starting a wider war. American officials are less certain, and have been debating for weeks why Mr. Putin has not done more to escalate the conflict.
Officials said Moscow has its own calculations to weigh, including whether it can handle a bigger war, particularly one that would allow NATO to invoke its mutual defense charter or enter the war more directly.
"Clearly, we want the Russians to know on some level that we are helping the Ukrainians to this extent, and we will continue to do so," said Evelyn Farkas, the former top Defense Department official for Russia and Ukraine in the Obama administration. "We will give them everything they need to win, and we're not afraid of Vladimir Putin's reaction to that. We won't be self-deterred."
But intelligence sharing is considered a safe form of help because it is invisible, or, at least, deniable. American intelligence has given secret information to Ukraine in a wide range of areas, from Russian troop movements to targeting data, officials said.
Last month, the United States increased the flow of intelligence to Ukraine about Russian forces in the Donbas and Crimea, as Kyiv's military forces prepared to defend against a renewed offensive by Moscow in eastern Ukraine, U.S. officials said.
"There's a significant amount of intelligence flowing to Ukraine from the United States," Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate panel on Tuesday. "We have opened up the pipes."

This and other target valued information is what pees off the Czar the most - much more then those weapon deliveries.

 

[wlewisiii]

U.S. intelligence is helping Ukraine kill Russian generals, officials say.

WASHINGTON — The United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.

Ukrainian officials said they have killed approximately 12 generals on the front lines, a number that has astonished military analysts.

I'm curious about if this was released intentionally to let the Russians (as an aside, I keep wanting to write Soviets ) know they can run but can't hide or if someone spilled the beans on something they'd have rather kept under wraps. With the poor state of the mass media in the US it's hard to know either way.

 

[Jagdflieger]

I'm curious about if this was released intentionally to let the Russians (as an aside, I keep wanting to write Soviets ) know they can run but can't hide or if someone spilled the beans on something they'd have rather kept under wraps. With the poor state of the mass media in the US it's hard to know either way.

Anything the Russians and the "informed" circles of other countries are both aware off - is legit to be published - no?

 

[Admiral Beez]

This and other target valued information is what pees off the Czar the most - much more then those weapon deliveries.

Agreed. Though I wonder if this puts US and NATO generals at risk. Maybe a letter bomb arrives at home? Or when a US general visits a US base overseas.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Agreed. Though I wonder if this puts US and NATO generals at risk. Maybe a letter bomb arrives at home? Or when a US general visits a US base overseas.

I would say that is the reason why the Czar is openly threatening retaliation (by what ever means - IMO however certainly not via using nukes on NATO targets)

 

[buffnut453]

Well - certain disinformation and cyber-operations e.g in country X are not run by separate government "institutions" - just separate but coordinated departments.
Which in some "other" countries does sometimes lead to the issues that different services aren't in the full picture even with each other.

Lack of coordination happens in every Government organization. It doesn't matter how you slice the cake, you always end up with gaps between wedges...and those gaps hinder communication and coordination. And that's before we consider that sometimes those wedges are artificial in nature, with the result that topics almost inevitably span those gaps. Add Governmental rice-bowl-ism where organizations seek to grow their size and influence, and it's no wonder things get screwed up.

 

[GrauGeist]

Disinformation warfare is (or was) called "PsyOps", not "cyber warfare" and is much, much older than the interwebs...

 

[Jagdflieger]

Disinformation warfare is (or was) called "PsyOps", not "cyber warfare" and is much, much older than the interwebs...

Yes - but the internet has enhanced "PsyOps", propaganda and disinformation campaigns tremendously and made it far more simple to apply or spread.
And it has become an integrated tool within cyber ops.

 

[GrauGeist]

Yes - but the internet has enhanced "PsyOps", propaganda and disinformation campaigns tremendously and made it far more simple to apply or spread.
And it has become an integrated tool within cyber ops.

Nope, sorry but, no.

Cyber "warfare" is attacking networks and related.

Disinformation, regardless of venue, is not covered under that definition.

 

[buffnut453]

And it has become an integrated tool within cyber ops.

Again, according to whose doctrine? Cyber delivered IO is not a cyber op. It's IO….at least in the US. If you're going to make a bald statement like that, please be clear about whose doctrine you're quoting.

Sorry to keep banging on about this but you're using a very broad brush to delineate a very complex set of inter-relationships between different types of non-kinetic effects.

 

[hawkeye2an]

lol, I can add hawkeye2an to the happy to add an iconic response but apparently uncomfortable with entering into discussion file. Six, count 'em six, "creatives" and not one written reply is obvious trollery.

You do you, brotha. Let me know if you want to discuss things, and if not, well, there's the round file and enjoy the silence.

Sorry mate, just the first time I've seen someone taken to task for calling someone creative.

 

[GrauGeist]

Still trying to figure out how media outlets like RT and Pravda are conducting "cyber warfare" when Goebbels was doing the exact same thing well over 40 years before the internet...

 

[Jagdflieger]

Again, according to whose doctrine? Cyber delivered IO is not a cyber op. It's IO….at least in the US. If you're going to make a bald statement like that, please be clear about whose doctrine you're quoting.

Sorry to keep banging on about this but you're using a very broad brush to delineate a very complex set of inter-relationships between different types of non-kinetic effects.

Oh come on, how detailed do you want to go?

there are enough known occurrences were e.g. IT systems from intelligence and security agencies have been accessed (cyber ops) and then used to send falsified information directly
"laying false IP information tracks" onto journalists and other intel. services in order to forward "authentic" false information and documents (disinformation campaign) right down to falsified archive registered and filed data deposits into breached data-banks.
That basic disinformation campaigns and basic cyber operations are two different topics is known, but they do not automatically exclude one from the other. Actually the opposite is rather the case.
Article from 2012!!
has the advent of the internet allowed militaries around the globe to bring psyops tactics into the cyber arena. In the American context, this cyberwarfare concept is coordinated under CYBERCOM, a sub-unit of STRATCOM, one of the nine unified commands under the Department of Defense. Although little is directly known about the current operational tactics and methods that are being deployed to bring psyops campaigns to the digital domain, numerous treatises, papers, articles and open discussions are taking place in military journals, strategy documents, and congressional subcommittees over the vital role that the internet is set to play in 21st century psychological warfare campaigns.

So it clearly runs under Cyber-warfare. - especially in the USA

From the official US Army career brochure - dated 2022

Influence with Information, Psychological Operations:
Military Information Support Operations (MISO) missions involve sharing specific information to foreign audiences to influence the emotions, motives, reasoning, and behavior of foreign governments and citizens. This can include cyber warfare and advanced communication techniques across all forms of media.