Jagdflieger
Senior Airman
- 580
- Mar 23, 2022
"yawn"
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"yawn"Well, there's a huge difference here - I have provided a legal analysis that covers what Turkey is doing, how far they have pushed Artical 19 and what motive may be behind it.
You have provided your opinion.
If shaking one's head could be considered laughing, then I am laughing - slowly...
Agreed, but NATO members bringing in their own combat naval assets into the Black Sea to actively participate in a war against Russia isn't the issue - at least not for now.There have been numerous studies done by the US and NATO relative to the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
The thing to remember about the situation in the Black Sea, is that unless the US and/or NATO wish to go to full scale war with Russia, they cannot attack (unprovoked) the Black Sea Fleet ships. There is no need to have any US or NATO ships in the Black Sea, at least not in a military sense, unless the US and/or NATO are planning on imminent attack.
Plus, if the US and/or NATO wanted to attack/neutralize/destroy the Black Sea Fleet, they would not have to use naval forces to do so. Aircraft flying from land bases using air-launched anti-ship weapons (ie ~Harpoon, Tomahawk, HARM), along with surface ship and submarine launched Tomahawk cruise missiles, would clear the Russian ships from the open sea in very short order. Their only hope of having surface ships surviving any length of time would be to retreat to their harbours under protection of Russian Air Force and land-based AA systems.
In studies during the height of the later Cold War period, the best the Soviet Navy ever achieved was to have a significant number of its submarines survive past the death of their surface fleet. The best the Soviet surface fleet ever managed was to have 10% of its surface combat ships survive past 2 weeks. This was assuming that the Soviet surface navy sortied to attack the US and/or NATO surface and submarine units, while also helping their submarine fleet deploy under a protective umbrella. This was also assuming that it was a conventional war, and that there was some warning and therefore time for both sides to prepare.
As an added bit of info, the US all by itself (with some lead time) currently has the ability to deliver ~180 (or more) Harpoon and/or Tomahawk anti-ship missiles on target anywhere in the world on the open seas or in coastal waters. All arriving on target within a couple of minutes if so desired.
I just came around, did I miss anything?All this yawning going on is making me super tired.
I just came around, did I miss anything?
It isn't just the fact they tried it, there can only have been negligible if any preparation.If you don';t first succeed, certainly don't do the same idiotic thing.
Russia makes second failed attempt at crossing Ukrainian river
Russian troops launched a second mission to cross the Donets River near Bilohorivka on Thursday, Ukraine said, in an attempt to rescue troops stranded during the first failed attempt.www.dailymail.co.uk
Hopefully the Ukrainians via back channels in the Kremlin can persuade Putin to reinstall him- General Valery Gerasimov was FIRED today Officially. Also Russian official said that he will be locked at home.
So beautiful !!! Can't stop watching again and again.
If you don';t first succeed, certainly don't do the same idiotic thing.
Russia makes second failed attempt at crossing Ukrainian river
Russian troops launched a second mission to cross the Donets River near Bilohorivka on Thursday, Ukraine said, in an attempt to rescue troops stranded during the first failed attempt.www.dailymail.co.uk
Can I say, that China is very appreciative about yours and Graugeist's opinion and conviction towards freedom of passage and access towards controlled/possessed waters?
Being the USA, I would be very concerned at the least about Turkey's disregard for the Montreux Convention - especially if hindering NATO war-vessels from traveling to other threatened NATO countries. and being the USA I couldn't give a rats ass about Turkeys - unproven - claim of fearing an imminent war with Russia. Since the Baltic states are far closer to Russia and are willing to support NATO respectively the Ukrainian government and even Finland willing to take the Russian threats by applying to join NATO.
Daily Intel and NATO surveillance has not come up with any indications about Russia preparing for a war with Turkey on or near it's border. (especially since they do not even share a common land border). And in words or in regards to possession of missiles, Putin has made already enough threats towards all those supporting the Ukraine.
Erdogan is just another lame dictator and war-criminal helping Putin to solidify Russia's naval advantage in the Black Sea.
Nuff said, and I will retire now from this specific topic......
You don't suppose there were no nearby Ukranian ground troops and the Ruskys thought they could pull off a sneaky-poo crossing unobserved? The low tech warfare mindset might lack imagination of what a drone-directed long range artillery battery with smart munitions and first shot targeting capacity can do. "Dang! There go the goalposts again! How'd they get this stuff? Effing magic!"I am no military mastermind, but where was the recce to see what forces the Ukrainian Army might have waiting for them. Where were the initial crossings by assault boats and amphibious tanks to hold an initial bridgehead, where was the air cover and AA defences because once found, a pontoon bridge was guaranteed to attract attention like insects to a honey pot, and where was the artillery support.
You don't suppose there were no nearby Ukranian ground troops and the Ruskys thought they could pull off a sneaky-poo crossing unobserved? The low tech warfare mindset might lack imagination of what a drone-directed long range artillery battery with smart munitions and first shot targeting capacity can do. "Dang! There go the goalposts again! How'd they get this stuff? Effing magic!"
"Hold your fire til you see the whites of their eyes. Then obliterate 'em!"It seems the Russian Army likes to conduct "recce by fire" or, in other words, advance until you get shot at. That very much aligns with Soviet-era doctrine of reinforcing success, whereby if a unit is able to advance more than others, then throw your weight behind it and encircle any pockets of resistance so they wither on the vine. That's all well and good in theory but it's very costly in practice...and it really only works if you have the Soviet-era "human wave" scale of forces at your disposal. Russia doesn't have that size of military...hence why this is hurting them so much.
Funny, I always heard "recce by fire" meant to spray the jungle 'til Charlie shoots back, then call in air and nape 'em.seems the Russian Army likes to conduct "recce by fire" or, in other words, advance until you get shot at.