"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (8 Viewers)

[MiTasol]

Going back to the topic of subs in the Black Sea:

MSN

www.msn.com

Does anyone make an underwater version of the Bayraktor clone?

If so Ukraine needs a couple to visit Sevastopol and pay its respects to that refurbished sub - and any other items that deserve similar respect

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

If not, then they're a virulent internal threat to the US. He's loudly promoted the idea that the Bucha Massacre was conducted by Ukraine and that Russia wasn't to blame for it. I'm all for free speech but sometimes it really bites when idiots like him directly undermine actual evidence.

I understand his antipathy to the western media but what about western intelligence services? Are they all part of the great conspiracy against Russia? Oh, and not forgetting the UN's war crimes investigators. If Ukraine perpetrated these crimes, why would they actively invite investigators to view the scenes and gather evidence? Yes, it could be staged but the scale of stuff that's been reported as under investigation means it would be impossible to perfectly mock-up all the evidence.

He's another of these oxygen thieves who makes bold claims and when called on them jumps straight to conspiracy theories. He's incredibly arrogant, and firmly of the opinion that he's right and everyone else is an idiot...and yet, AFAIK, he only made it to major in the military. There simply aren't words....

I don't want to wade into politics here, but it's a fact that conspiracist thinking here in America is adding to our national divide, and that Russian troll-farms have an active and traceable part in it.

I don't know about this cat, he may just be a nutter, or he may be on someone's payroll, I have no idea. I only know that applying Occam's Razor keeps me out of a lot of bullshit. I will leave it at that here, and if anyone has any questions please PM me rather than threaten the thread.

 

[at6]

With Finland and Sweden now invited to join NATO, it may only be a matter of days[Hopefully] until they become full members. They sooner the better.

 

[Glider]

With Finland and Sweden now invited to join NATO, it may only be a matter of days[Hopefully] until they become full members. They sooner the better.

I notice that when the idea of Sweden and Finland were first reported as thinking of joining NATO, Putin made all kinds of threat as to what Russia would do if they formally asked. Then when they made the formal request there were less dire threats.
Now the road blocks are out of the way, its now, We don't mind if they join Nato as we have no territorial issues with Sweden or Finland (Despite this now turning the Baltic into a NATO lake, and cutting St Petersburg off) as long as NATO don't put any infrastructure into those countries.
What's the betting nothing would happen if NATO build some facilities there.

 

[buffnut453]

I notice that when the idea of Sweden and Finland were first reported as thinking of joining NATO, Putin made all kinds of threat as to what Russia would do if they formally asked. Then when they made the formal request there were less dire threats.
Now the road blocks are out of the way, its now, We don't mind if they join Nato as we have no territorial issues with Sweden or Finland (Despite this now turning the Baltic into a NATO lake, and cutting St Petersburg off) as long as NATO don't put any infrastructure into those countries.
What's the betting nothing would happen if NATO build some facilities there.

And yet Moscow continues with the same pattern, now threatening Turkey with consequences for agreeing to let Sweden and Finland into NATO:

Russian Official Warns of Consequences for Turkey Backing NATO Expansion

Russian lawmaker Leonid Slutsky said Turkey should not be "too flattered about the assurances" it received in exchange for Finland and Sweden joining NATO.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I notice that when the idea of Sweden and Finland were first reported as thinking of joining NATO, Putin made all kinds of threat as to what Russia would do if they formally asked. Then when they made the formal request there were less dire threats.
Now the road blocks are out of the way, its now, We don't mind if they join Nato as we have no territorial issues with Sweden or Finland (Despite this now turning the Baltic into a NATO lake, and cutting St Petersburg off) as long as NATO don't put any infrastructure into those countries.
What's the betting nothing would happen if NATO build some facilities there.

 

[GrauGeist]

Here again, affirmation that Russia (Soviet Union - take your pick) relies on their blustery saber rattling schoolyard bully threats to cow every one.

The Snake Island defenders said it like it is and Ukraine has proven that Russia is an angry schoolyard bully with a glass jaw.

 

[buffnut453]

Speaking of Snake Island, Ukraine is reporting that Russian forces have evacuated the place:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61987663

 

[Admiral Beez]

its now, We don't mind if they join Nato as we have no territorial issues with Sweden or Finland (Despite this now turning the Baltic into a NATO lake, and cutting St Petersburg off) as long as NATO don't put any infrastructure into those countries.

I recall somewhere that Finland committed to not permanently basing NATO forces.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So now China's in NATO's crosshairs? That's a long way from the North Atlantic.

Nato leaders voice concern about threat China poses to world order for first time

Beijing’s efforts to build up nuclear forces, hacking operations and increasingly close ties to Moscow are ‘serious challenges’, says Nato secretary general

www.theguardian.com

"Thanks a lot Putin, we were counting on Western complacency and disunity, plus their hunger for our cheap goods to cover our move on Taiwan, you dumb ass" said President XI.

 

[swampyankee]

And yet Moscow continues with the same pattern, now threatening Turkey with consequences for agreeing to let Sweden and Finland into NATO:

Russian Official Warns of Consequences for Turkey Backing NATO Expansion

Russian lawmaker Leonid Slutsky said Turkey should not be "too flattered about the assurances" it received in exchange for Finland and Sweden joining NATO.

www.newsweek.com

There's a long history between Russia and Turkey and the Ottoman Empire, none of it good.

 

[wlewisiii]

 

[Denniss]

"Leaving Snake Island as a sign of good will" - Hah. Hardly believable.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

So now China's in NATO's crosshairs?

This phrasing implies that NATO is aiming for problems with China.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Speaking of Snake Island, Ukraine is reporting that Russian forces have evacuated the place:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61987663

NPR here is reporting that the withdrawal is the result of a heavy bombardment overnight.

 

[Denniss]

Or someone higher up finally got someone else to do a proper calculation: shall we try to reinforce this small island and risking more ships/helos to be lost or do we leavy this small rocky island as fast as possible?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Or someone higher up finally got someone else to do a proper calculation: shall we try to reinforce this small island and risking more ships/helos to be lost or do we leavy this small rocky island as fast as possible?

Not all withdrawals are bad moves, and this one is probably smart for Russia, given the losses they're suffering in the Donbas.

 

[Dimlee]

Not posted here in a while. Comment on the ground war.

I argued way back at the end of April that Russia was replicating WW1 style 'bit and hold' tactics - and I think that's played out as somewhat accurate since then.
Russian M.O. in and around Donestk has been to build crushing local artillery superiority (reportedly anywhere from a 10:1 to 15:1 advantage), pound a section of the line of defense until they either withdraw or have their effectiveness reduced, and then send in the infantry with armoured support to secure small gains. Then rinse and repeat.

It's slow, painful and bloody work on both sides - but it seems that for Russia it's more palatable than having armoured columns charging about and being chewed up by ATGMs when they advance and artillery when they pause for resupply.

Ukrainian losses have also risen as a result. With the country able to do little more than stubbornly make the invaders pay for the ground they take (there aren't enough operational reserves for anything other than local counter-attacks), it's forced to undertake a mostly static defense.

My question now is - who is going to buckle first? Russia is spending huge amounts of materiel and a considerable number of lives to maintain these incremental advances. Ukraine is stoically defending and has plenty of manpower, but the majority of its reinforcements amount to little more than light infantry and even Western support can't totally redress the imbalance (at least for the moment).

Actually, Ukrainian defence is mostly mobile and maneuverable. It becomes static in certain places which are considered critical and are defended stubbornly as Severodonetsk recently. But this is just a small portion of a frontline.
As for who is going to buckle first... Russia has choices while Ukraine has none. It's fight or be eliminated situation for the nation.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

June 30 (Reuters) - Russia's Deputy Security Council Chairman Dmitry Medvedev said on Thursday that in certain circumstances, sanctions against Moscow may be seen as an act of aggression and a justification for war.

"I would like to point out once again that under certain circumstances such hostile measures can also qualify as an act of international aggression. And even as a casus belli (justification for war)," Medvedev said, adding that Russia has the right to defend itself.

Russia's Medvedev says sanctions could be justification for war

Russia's Deputy Security Council Chairman Dmitry Medvedev said on Thursday that in certain circumstances, sanctions against Moscow may be seen as an act of aggression and a justification for war.

www.reuters.com

As my late stepfather Bob would say, "You've got the easy part done ... the talking."

 

[GrauGeist]

It's rather interesting to see Russia's interpretation of "war".

It's ok to invade a sovereign nation under false pretenses, kill it's people, level it's cities and steal everything in sight.

But as soon as anyone objects, then those objections (none of which are lethal) is seen as an "act of war"?

Unreal...