"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (5 Viewers)

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't see why the Hungarians and non-NATO Serbs are fans of Putin. The latter should know how Russia treats any non-allied neighbours.

I'm not sure either. I suspect ethnic fraternity may play into it (look at the start of WWI with Russia supporting Serbs against the A-H empire), but outside of general history I'm pretty ignorant of the dynamics there. Hopefully someone with better insight into the regional politics/feelings etc can provide some insight?

It baffles me especially in the case of Hungary, which was willing to rise up against the USSR in 1956.

 

[GrauGeist]

I don't think it's the people as much as the politicians.
Bulgaria has had issues in it's political hierarchy with Kremlin puppets. Interestingly enough, this "special operation" has caused a shake up in Bulgaria with the Russian sympathizers making a low profile.

 

[swampyankee]

I'm not sure either. I suspect ethnic fraternity may play into it (look at the start of WWI with Russia supporting Serbs against the A-H empire), but outside of general history I'm pretty ignorant of the dynamics there. Hopefully someone with better insight into the regional politics/feelings etc can provide some insight?

It baffles me especially in the case of Hungary, which was willing to rise up against the USSR in 1956.

It seems quite a few of the far right nationalist leaders admire Putin and Putin's domestic political methods.

 

[Macandy]

Leo1 has very little armour and no protection from even the most primitive Russian AT weapons. The reason the Leo2 was introduced was that the Leo1 did not measure up to the T-72, the very tank the Russians are using in Ukraine. I'd rather we send Ukraine the Leo2s they asked for. As I understand it, it's politics, not a lack of availability that is holding up the Leo2s for Ukraine.

If there's any European tank that's not in front line service today to send, it has to be those four hundred Challenger 1 tanks that Jordan is retiring. Let's collect those now, today, clean them up, and send those to Ukraine.... alongside three hundred Leo2s.

British Gulf War tanks may be modernized and sent to Ukraine

Rheinmetall is ready to buy Jordanian Challenger 1 tanks, bring them to Germany, refurbish and repair them, and send them to help Ukrainian ground forces.

bulgarianmilitary.com

Even Canada, one of the most parsimonious military spenders in NATO scrapped their Leo1s for Leo2s a decade ago. Sending Leo1s to Ukraine when Leo2s are available is just setting up the UAF for failure and sending Ukrainians to unnecessary death.

I wish NATO would decide how they want to help Ukraine. On one hand we send the highest tech kit, such as HIMARs, GMLRS, MANPADS, MANPATS, Patriot SAMs, MQ-9 Reaper drones, and other top drawer systems. Then on the other hand we treat Ukraine like a dump for army surplus junk, like Leo1s and retired Sea Kings first produced in the 1960s.

Leopard 1 was basically a Panther with the bugs ironed out

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

It seems quite a few of the far right nationalist leaders admire Putin and Putin's domestic political methods.

I know. We're wondering why that's the case.

 

[Macandy]

I know. We're wondering why that's the case.

Because Putin is a old school tyrant wrapped in good old ultra nationalism.
The RuZZians use the same playbook at Hitler

 

[Admiral Beez]

Leopard 1 was basically a Panther with the bugs ironed out

I'm not so sure. Unlike the heavier and slower Panther, the Leopard 1 sacrificed nearly all its protection from anything above auto-cannon calibre weapons for greater mobility and firepower - on the assumption that no level of protection could stop the latest HEAT rounds. As such, the Leopard was at least two tonnes lighter and ten km/h faster than the Panther, with a gun that was 40% larger. I think an equivalent to the Leopard 1 concept in WW2 would be the Sherman Firefly, a virtual egg-shell battlecruiser capable of killing anything on the battlefield but unable to withstand much of any counterfire. I wonder if the Germans ever considered the concept of a fast, heavily armed, but thinly armoured tank, with a proper turret rather than a casemate tank destroyer?

 

[Macandy]

I'm not so sure. Unlike the heavier and slower Panther, the Leopard 1 sacrificed nearly all its protection from anything above auto-cannon calibre weapons for greater mobility and firepower - on the assumption that no level of protection could stop the latest HEAT rounds. As such, the Leopard was at least two tonnes lighter and ten km/h faster than the Panther, with a gun that was 40% larger. I think an equivalent to the Leopard 1 concept in WW2 would be the Sherman Firefly, a virtual egg-shell battlecruiser capable of killing anything on the battlefield but unable to withstand much of any counterfire. I wonder if the Germans ever considered the concept of a fast, heavily armed, but thinly armoured tank, with a proper turret rather than a casemate tank destroyer?

They share clear DNA, the designers were designing the Panther only 10 years before, the hull is little more than the Panther hull (its within centimetres size wise) with better transmission and a proper wheel arrangement.
.As for the gun? It was originally going to have a 90mm cannon. The 105mm L7 was adopted when it became the NATO standard. Armour thickness? Nothing much in it when you allow for the slightest difference in slope.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Because Putin is a old school tyrant wrapped in good old ultra nationalism.
The RuZZians use the same playbook at Hitler

View attachment 705935

That doesn't explain why Serbs and other Eastern Europeans have a fondness for him, which is what Beezy and I are wondering.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That doesn't explain why Serbs and other Eastern Europeans have a fondness for him, which is what Beezy and I are wondering.

My boss back in the late 1990s was Serbian. I asked him why Serbs, Croats and Bosnians couldn't get along, and he replied that from childhood he'd been told to hate them, and to feel nationalistic about a Serb nation. He then said that every Serbian who doesn't feel this way has left, leaving only the crazy, apathetic and radicals behind. I expect that's what will happen to Russia, with anyone with intellectual curiosity, a free/open mind and some intelligence/education along with marketable skills emigrating if they can, leaving behind just those Russians crazy, apathetic or radical enough to go along with whatever the current strong man tells them.

 

[WARSPITER]

The popular and majority feeling in Serbia is support for Russia and dislike for NATO / EU. Since Vucic came to power he has kept up an
outwardly neutral stance while cementing closer ties with Russia. Several Balkan states have parties who receive funds from Russia.
Serbia is still filled with those who are angry at the breakup of the Balkan Slavic states and would love to get Kosovo etc back, just as Russia
wants Ukraine.

In Hungary Orban does whatever helps Orban and although there are still elections held there the system has been changed along with the
economy where it is constitutionally impossible for opposition parties to change things unless they can get at least a two thirds majority.
With Hungary doing well economically people there don't have a problem with the leadership. Orban is using his Veto power in the EU to
ensure the flow of money continues to him from other European countries. At the same time Hungary is dependant on Russian energy so
he is benefitting Putin to a great extent.

Serbia - grumpy ? Hungary - greedy ?

 

[manta22]

They share clear DNA, the designers were designing the Panther only 10 years before, the hull is little more than the Panther hull (its within centimetres size wise) with better transmission and a proper wheel arrangement.
.As for the gun? It was originally going to have a 90mm cannon. The 105mm L7 was adopted when it became the NATO standard. Armour thickness? Nothing much in it when you allow for the slightest difference in slope.

View attachment 705938View attachment 705937

GEHEIM??????

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

My boss back in the late 1990s was Serbian. I asked him why Serbs, Croats and Bosnians couldn't get along, and he replied that from childhood he'd been told to hate them, and to feel nationalistic about a Serb nation. He then said that every Serbian who doesn't feel this way has left, leaving only the crazy, apathetic and radicals behind. I expect that's what will happen to Russia, with anyone with intellectual curiosity, a free/open mind and some intelligence/education along with marketable skills emigrating if they can, leaving behind just those Russians crazy, apathetic or radical enough to go along with whatever the current strong man tells them.

I can confirm that. I participated in the NATO peacekeeping mission in Kosovo. After talking with the locals, they all said the same thing.

 

[Macandy]

That doesn't explain why Serbs and other Eastern Europeans have a fondness for him, which is what Beezy and I are wondering.

Its this Russkyi Mir 'it was great in the past' fantasy

 

[Admiral Beez]

Putin's treatment of Ukraine should remind any free Slavs thinking of leaning away from Russian influence, such as Serbian seeking EU membership that if he could, Putin would crush them just the same. If first Poland, and now Ukraine can successfully break away, then so can Belarus and Georgia. If so, what's to keep Serbians under Moscow's toe?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Its actually a shame that the Balkan region cannot get along (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.). I was fortunate enough to visit it when it was Yugoslavia before it split apart, and have visited each of the individual countries after the split. I always enjoyed the visits, people, and culture. Especially the food. Nothing beats some Cevapcici and Ajvar.

There is a reason the region has been known as the powder keg of Europe. Despite being similar, still too many ethnic differences and long standing hatred.

 

[GTX]

I know. We're wondering why that's the case.

Birds of a feather stick together...dictators, tyrants...want-to-be dictators...

 

[GTX]

Swiss neutrality on the line as arms-for-Ukraine debate heats up

Switzerland is close to breaking with centuries of tradition as a neutral state, as a pro-Ukraine shift in the public and political mood puts pressure on the government to end a ban on exports of Swiss weapons to war zones.

www.abc.net.au

 

[GTX]

Russian reinforcements pour into Ukraine ahead of anticipated new offensive, local governor says

Desperate for Western military aid to arrive, Ukraine anticipates a major offensive could be launched by Russia for "symbolic" reasons around the February 24 anniversary of the invasion, as the war reaches a pivotal point.

www.abc.net.au

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Swiss neutrality on the line as arms-for-Ukraine debate heats up

Switzerland is close to breaking with centuries of tradition as a neutral state, as a pro-Ukraine shift in the public and political mood puts pressure on the government to end a ban on exports of Swiss weapons to war zones.

www.abc.net.au

They don't give a shit about public opinion. Money on the other hand ......


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