"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (4 Viewers)

[Thumpalumpacus]

No. It is NOT a proxy war. It is a war of national survival for Ukraine resulting from Russian aggression. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sapping China was certainly not on the Western mind when we decided to support Ukraine in its defensive war. Chinese arms weren't being supplied at that time., and so I doubt that was any motivation in DC, Brussels, London, etc. I.E. from the Western perspective this is not a proxy war at all.

Now, if China has since actually decided to supply arms to Russia, that could indicate that China sees this as a proxy war even if the West doesn't. And to be fair, if the Chinese are supplying arms to Russia, that could change this into a proxy war even if the West didn't aim for that. After all, Chinese weapons sent to western Russia are not Chinese weapons that can threaten America's Far East allies. That still doesn't mean that America sees it as a proxy war, but reality has a way of imposing its own stamp and it could become that despite Western intentions solely to help Ukraine rather than sap China.

Different supporters can and often do have different reasons for providing lethal aid. America's support of radical Muslims in Afghanistan, for instance, made that a proxy war for us with the purpose of sapping the USSR; but for the USSR, it was still a direct war with the goal of political control, with their own direct involvement.

 

[GTX]

'On tour in hell': Wounded soldiers recount tales from Ukrainian front line

The battle in Bakhmut has been bloody, with soldiers describing endless days of combat, often at close quarters. The wounded are stretchered into an evacuation bus by volunteer paramedics who work on the front line.

www.abc.net.au

 

[GTX]

Ukraine farmers battle with paddocks seeded with land mines

Ukraine's crop forecast continues to fall as farmers struggle to access paddocks seeded with mines.

www.abc.net.au

 

[MiTasol]

Sapping China was certainly not on the Western mind when we decided to support Ukraine in its defensive war. Chinese arms weren't being supplied at that time., and so I doubt that was any motivation in DC, Brussels, London, etc. I.E. from the Western perspective this is not a proxy war at all.

Now, if China has since actually decided to supply arms to Russia, that could indicate that China sees this as a proxy war even if the West doesn't. And to be fair, if the Chinese are supplying arms to Russia, that could change this into a proxy war even if the West didn't aim for that. After all, Chinese weapons sent to western Russia are not Chinese weapons that can threaten America's Far East allies. That still doesn't mean that America sees it as a proxy war, but reality has a way of imposing its own stamp and it could become that despite Western intentions solely to help Ukraine rather than sap China.

Different supporters can and often do have different reasons for providing lethal aid. America's support of radical Muslims in Afghanistan, for instance, made that a proxy war for us with the purpose of sapping the USSR; but for the USSR, it was still a direct war with the goal of political control, with their own direct involvement.

I think that now that Russia is a client state of China, China has no option but to support them to a certain extent

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think that now that Russia is a client state of China, China has no option but to support them to a certain extent

China could choose to go hardnose without losing too much, but Russia cannot afford to lose China as both a snorkel and a tech-base. It follows that China has the upper hand, to my thinking, and that Russia is liable to being pulled in as a satellite. The situation in Central Asia also plays into this power-dynamic.

In short, Russia's options are more limited than China's. China can let Russia go elbow over teakettle while they still have their own economic power, but without Chinese purchases of Russian oil, selling of weapons, and furnishing of tech, Russia is assed-out. Russia needs a major partner right now, and China doesn't, so we know who holds the high cards.

 

[Snowman]

Russia was sat under Mongols for 300 years. Now it's time to lay down under China. Maybe Chinese will be kind enough, and even let Russians to play balalaika. But it's not certain for now.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Russia was sat under Mongols for 300 years. Now it's time to lay down under China. Maybe Chinese will be kind enough, and even let Russians to play balalaika. But it's not certain for now.

Had not Putin launched this war, Russia would remain a serious concern for the Chinese. But now that they're balls-deep in Ukraine -- and getting 'em cut off in the process -- I think this die is already cast. They can look to China for relief, and that will come at a cost. I doubt the Russians can refuse the bill at this point, as Putin's war has exposed the Potemkin Village.

But now, the Chinese will have hooks into the Russian arms industry and that means the Russians won't want to bite that hand, even if they could. If you're in Moscow, the skies are dark indeed.

 

[Glider]

I think that now that Russia is a client state of China, China has no option but to support them to a certain extent

Its a personal view but I don't expect China to support Russia to any degree over Ukraine. I believe they will support Russia to the extent that Russia doesn't fall as a nation, but they probably don't mind seeing Russia weakened. The more this drags on the more that Russia will be indebted to China and that is probably fine by them.

China will not want to be the only major power facing the USA and the rest of it's allies as they don't have the strength, either militarily or economically. Russia will go some way to balance things out

 

[Denniss]

Yep, china as the only surviving superpower besides the USA will have too many eyes and ears pointed towards them.

 

[Dimlee]

Russia was sat under Mongols for 300 years. Now it's time to lay down under China. Maybe Chinese will be kind enough, and even let Russians to play balalaika. But it's not certain for now.

There was no "Russia" during the Mongol rule. The term Russia(Rossiya) appeared later. It was officially adopted as the name of the country even later.
But it's true, that territories which remained under the Mongols the longest, later formed the core of Moskovia or Moscow Kingdom which eventually expanded into the Empire.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

From the Hill this morning:


The Russian offensive that began in the late winter has largely stalled after failing to make any significant gains in eastern Ukraine, including in the town of Bakhmut, which has become a symbolic battle of the war and a priority for Moscow.

Russian forces are still pounding away at Ukrainian lines across the eastern front, but the intensity of the assault, which just weeks ago had put immense pressure on Kyiv, appears to be dying out.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley said Russian forces have not made any progress in the past 20 days from the southeast to the Luhansk region up north.

"The Russians are struggling in a big way," Milley told a House Armed Services Hearing on Wednesday. "These forces are very undertrained, they are essentially doing frontal assaults into machine gun positions and they are getting slaughtered."

"That's also true across the entire frontline, from Kreminna all the way down to Kherson," the top U.S. general continued. "The Ukrainians have fought a remarkable defensive fight and the Russians have not achieved their strategic objectives."

With the Russian assault slowing down and more advanced western armor trickling in, including Germany's Leopard 2 tanks and more Soviet-era fighter jets, Ukrainian forces have hinted they are poised to launch a long-anticipated counteroffensive.

Col. Gen. Oleksandr Syrski, the commander of Ukraine's ground forces, said in a Telegram post last week the Russians have lost "considerable strength" during the offensive.

"Very soon we will take advantage of this opportunity, as we once did near Kyiv, Kharkiv, Balaklia and Kupyansk," Syrski said, referring to successful Ukrainian counteroffensives last year.

 

[Frog]

A too pro Russian behavior would not be a very good long term policy for China as this would have dire consequences on its share of the cake for the hundreds billions market concerning the reconstruction in Ukraine.

 

[GrauGeist]

It was the "Golden Hoard" that brought down the Kievan Rus in the 1200's - it would be nearly three centuries before the foundations of modern Russia would be formed.

 

[buffnut453]

Oh boy!!! This could get…interesting:

Vladlen Tatarsky: Killing of pro-Kremlin blogger investigated as murder

A blast at a St Petersburg cafe killed Vladlen Tatarsky, who blogged from the Ukraine front line.

www.bbc.com

 

[GrauGeist]

Oh boy!!! This could get…interesting:

Vladlen Tatarsky: Killing of pro-Kremlin blogger investigated as murder

A blast at a St Petersburg cafe killed Vladlen Tatarsky, who blogged from the Ukraine front line.

www.bbc.com

Obviously the work of the Azov Mother/Daughter team...

 

[manta22]

Obviously the work of the Azov Mother/Daughter team...

...working their Azov.

 

[Glider]

Obviously the work of the Azov Mother/Daughter team...

The interesting thing is who would want to kill him. These bloggers often say things that don't fit in with the official story, I am not pretending that they are anti Russia, but they can be critical of the state.
Ukraine would have far more important targets if they had the ability deep inside Russia

 

[GTX]

Humiliating factor in Russian army's failure identified by British intelligence

 

[GTX]

Ukrainian official offers plan for a Crimea without Russia, suggests renaming Sevastopol 'Object Number 6'

A top Ukrainian official outlines a series of steps the government in Kyiv would take if the country reclaims control of Crimea, including dismantling the strategic bridge that links the seized Black Sea peninsula to Russia.

www.abc.net.au

 

[GTX]

Hundreds of Ukrainian athletes have been killed over the course of Russia's invasion

Ukraine's Sport Minister says 262 athletes have been killed, and 363 sports facilities destroyed, over the course of the war that is now in its second year.

www.abc.net.au