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How would you utilize your Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 tanks?

This article suggests the Leo2s might be used in penny packets in support of older Russian-origin tanks.

www.forbes.com

Ukraine’s Best Tank Brigade Could Get A Few Long-Gun Leopard 2A6s—And Use Them To Cover Its Old T-64s

A Leopard 2A6's L/55 gun firing a DM63 tungsten sabot round should be able to penetrate the equivalent of a thousand millimeters of steel—enough to destroy even the best-protected Russian tank from a thousand yards away or farther.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

But I like the idea of a hundred Leopard 2s and Challengers working as one, like the Rohirrim, smashing all they encounter.

Here's an interesting article showing that the Ukrainians tankers scored 93% accuracy in their initial training. These guys are going to tear Russia's tanks apart.

foreignpolicy.com

Ukraine’s Leopard Tank Crews Are Trained and Ready to Fight

Advanced tanks will be critical to any summer offensive.
foreignpolicy.com foreignpolicy.com
 
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As you can see there is a lot of emphasis in the Russian Army regarding the defensive works that have been prepared and are being prepared by Russia.

Do you think anyone has reminded the Russians of the Maginot Line, Atlantic Wall, Siegfried Line, and what happened then?

MOD briefing 1st May web.jpg
 
Admiral Beez said:
How would you utilize your Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 tanks?
Click to expand...

There are a number of ways they could be effectively used:

Overwatch support/ISR - Western tanks generally have superior thermals, night sights and other vision systems when compared to Soviet/Russian tanks of similar vintage. Attaching a single Leo 2 or Chally 2 to a Ukrainian tank platoon, in a manner akin to how the British attached Fireflies to platoons of Shermans and Cromwells, would be a force multiplier. They can find and identify targets at longer range than Ukraine's typical equipment, do it in a wider range of conditions and report back on that more effectively.

Command tank - Western tanks also generally have better communications and data sharing gear than Soviet/Russian tanks (as I recall, Soviet doctrine in the Cold War ear was that only command tanks had radio network connections beyond the platoon level). Western tanks are generally tied into a number of different radio nets, so they can be used to command the platoon/company, call in artillery support, request infantry movements and similar. Tie that in with better ISR capabilities, and that's a powerful force multiplier.

Heavy breakthrough - Western tanks are generally more survivable than their Soviet/Russian counterparts (although exactly how survivable on a modern battlefield filled with PGMs is yet to be determined). Western armour could be used in small (platoon to company) sized set piece attacks to reduce Russian defensive positions, with a better chance of surviving than Ukrainian T-64/T-72s. Ukraine's lighter forces (Russian tanks and a mix of Western and Russian IFVs) would then be used in an exploitation phase.

Admiral Beez said:
But I like the idea of a hundred Leopard 2s and Challengers working as one, like the Rohirrim, smashing all they encounter.
Click to expand...

I consider this highly unlikely. A Russian response to an identified concentration of Western armour is likely going to be disproportionately large, and probably focused around artillery and air assets.

Putting 100 Leo 2s into a specific area of the front is going to get a lot of negative attention. What Ukraine could do is 'head fake', and parade a collection of Western armour to pull Russian attention deliberately to a certain spot, before attacking elsewhere. But, that's still a dangerous game to play.
 
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I'd keep the small number of Challengers close to one another, if only to maximize efficiencies of logistics and support. Either way I'm anxious to see things underway, while knowing that there are hundreds or thousands of Ukrainian young men who are about to die or suffer grievous wounds while freeing their nation.

The Leopard 2A7 variant with its longer barrel 120mm is going to be a killer. No amount of ERA is going to stop it from cutting through the armour on any Russian tank.
 
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Glider said:
Do you think anyone has reminded the Russians of the Maginot Line, Atlantic Wall, Siegfried Line, and what happened then?
Click to expand...
They have the example of the Molotov Line from 1941
 
Warspite63 said:
That is... mind-boggling! 100,000 casualties for a town that had 70,000 inhabitants pre-war. And they haven't won there yet. Shades of the Western Front in WW1
Click to expand...
Putin's hold on power and reliance on public apathy was shaken when the Kursk submarine sank. How much longer can nearly 200,000 and growing wives/mothers see their husbands/sons coming home shattered or dead before they say, enough? By summer there will be a quarter million dead or wounded Russians.
 
buffnut453 said:
www.bbc.com

Ukraine war: More than 20,000 Russian troops killed since December, US says

Another 80,000 Russian soldiers have been wounded in fighting since December, the White House estimates.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...

Warspite63 said:
That is... mind-boggling! 100,000 casualties for a town that had 70,000 inhabitants pre-war. And they haven't won there yet. Shades of the Western Front in WW1
Click to expand...

A correction is due here. That are the casualties in all Ukraine since December and not only in Bakhmut. Still mind-blogging!


"A previous version of this article included information from a Monday briefing where National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Russia suffered 100,000 casualties, including more than 20,000 killed in action, in Bakhmut since December. NSC deputy spokesman Sean Savett said later Monday that those figure account for all of Russia's losses across Ukraine, not just in Bakhmut, since December."
 
RogerdeLluria said:
A correction is due here. That are the casualties in all Ukraine since December and not only in Bakhmut. Still mind-blogging!


"A previous version of this article included information from a Monday briefing where National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Russia suffered 100,000 casualties, including more than 20,000 killed in action, in Bakhmut since December. NSC deputy spokesman Sean Savett said later Monday that those figure account for all of Russia's losses across Ukraine, not just in Bakhmut, since December."
Click to expand...

Yeah...that's still 25,000 casualties per month in a period where fighting was, theoretically at least, at a lower intensity than during the summer months. I wonder what the casualty figures will be in September?
 
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