That would just about cover Stalin, Mao Zedong, Lenin, and any number or US politicians...
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (3 Viewers)
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
My point was that they're not interested in military involvement in Ukraine -- obviously. No one said they weren't looking to stand astride the global stage.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Phew, for a moment there I thought that was a Swiss flag in the tweet and wondered if they'd grant permission to use them at all.
fubar57
General
South Africa will 'do the right thing' on Putin arrest warrant, ICC prosecutor tells MPs | CBC News
South Africa will have the opportunity this summer to enforce the International Criminal Court's arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin — and the court's top prosecutor told MPs on Thursday he's confident the Commonwealth country "will do the right thing."
I'm going to say it was Goebbels.
fubar57
General
Goebbels or not...
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
This is an excellent definition of the "Big lie," however, there seems to be no evidence that it was used by Nazi propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels, though it is often attributed to him.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
This is an excellent definition of the "Big lie," however, there seems to be no evidence that it was used by Nazi propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels, though it is often attributed to him.
Joseph Goebbels On the “Big Lie”
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Glider
Captain
I am noticing that some areas of Russian TV are complaining that President XI Jinping has betrayed Putin by having 'deep and meaningful' conversations with Ukraine. This is interesting as almost nothing is broadcast on Russian TV without the permission of the government. There are also some comments about the lack of actual support that China is giving Russia despite them being officially the closest of friends.
Am I the only person who thinks that the first public signs of concern are coming to the surface?
www.msn.com
Am I the only person who thinks that the first public signs of concern are coming to the surface?
MSN
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I am noticing that some areas of Russian TV are complaining that President XI Jinping has betrayed Putin by having 'deep and meaningful' conversations with Ukraine. This is interesting as almost nothing is broadcast on Russian TV without the permission of the government. There are also some comments about the lack of actual support that China is giving Russia despite them being officially the closest of friends.
Am I the only person who thinks that the first public signs of concern are coming to the surface?
MSN
China has been playing to the middle all along. Why might this surprise the Russians? I think this might be Russia calling them out, but I'm bemused why the Russian government might have read them so wrongly. It seemed apparent to me that the Chinese have been trying to play both sides. Wouldn't the gov't in Russia also see the same thing? I mean, I'm just some dipshit on the internet and it seemed pretty plain to me.
So maybe the Russians are trying to pressure (albeit from a weak stance) China to put up or shut up?
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
China: We are your closest friend. Let's you and him fight.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
China's ultimate goal is Taiwan and for two reasons.
First of all, they consider it "their" property.
Secondly and most important, Taiwan is the last remnant of the Republic of China that remains to be conquered after all these years. The RoC is a prosperous democracy and their surviving the attempted overthrow by the communists and subsequent success after all these years is a festering thorn in the CCP's side.
However, with Russia's disastrous attempt at "reclaiming" the Ukraine and the galvanizing of nations rallying to Ukraine's aid, China has had to backstep and rethink their position on tje global stage.
Currently, China has a booming global trade that's paying the light bill. So they have to ask themselves, would it be worth it currently, to try and "annex" Taiwan and suffer not only the loss of their economy but potential war with the U.S., Japan and other regional allies of Taiwan, or do they cool their heels and try a different angle that might not be as risky?
Currently, their encroaching on neighboring countries' territories in the South China Sea has caused a considerable amount of tension - so they have to play some angle to draw eyes away from their shenanigans and supporting Russia at this point in time would be political poison.
First of all, they consider it "their" property.
Secondly and most important, Taiwan is the last remnant of the Republic of China that remains to be conquered after all these years. The RoC is a prosperous democracy and their surviving the attempted overthrow by the communists and subsequent success after all these years is a festering thorn in the CCP's side.
However, with Russia's disastrous attempt at "reclaiming" the Ukraine and the galvanizing of nations rallying to Ukraine's aid, China has had to backstep and rethink their position on tje global stage.
Currently, China has a booming global trade that's paying the light bill. So they have to ask themselves, would it be worth it currently, to try and "annex" Taiwan and suffer not only the loss of their economy but potential war with the U.S., Japan and other regional allies of Taiwan, or do they cool their heels and try a different angle that might not be as risky?
Currently, their encroaching on neighboring countries' territories in the South China Sea has caused a considerable amount of tension - so they have to play some angle to draw eyes away from their shenanigans and supporting Russia at this point in time would be political poison.
buffnut453
Captain
I think you're hitting on a salient problem inherent in autocratic governments where lies are the common currency. There's "the message" and nothing else...no contrary views, no criticisms and certainly no failures (at least by the autocratic bosses). Russia has actively promoted a structure where subordinates are forced to lie to their superiors because, if they told the truth, they'd be jumping out of windows or counting trees....that kind of corruption inevitably pushes to all parts of an organization. Add that to the ubiquitous inter-organizational political shenanigans associated with all large organizations and the net result is that the inner sanctum (a) sets and enforces "the message," (b) views all incoming data through the prism/distortion of "the message," and (c) can't trust anything that anyone says to them...and so they revert constantly back to "the message" (it's all going to plan, right?). This kind of system breeds a total lack of trust, morals, and honesty...and while the democratic nations have major shortfalls in those areas, they aren't the default setting for most of the minions within Western governments or military service.
You're so much more than that...you're OUR dipshit on the internet.
And I'm just your wingman!
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
I think this is exactly why they're playing a middle line re:Ukraine. I think they don't appreciate Russia bringing up this "wayward province needs some teaching" precisely because that's what, in fact, they have in mind with Taiwan. In a metaphorical sense, the Russians have sharpened the magnifying glass and focused its ability to burn.
The Chinese are very happy to have this European distraction taking eyes away from the Spratley Islands and artificial base-building/economic-zone expansion. They stand to gain so long as the world's attention is focused elsewhere.
It stands to reason that rather than quell problems, the would angle to sit astride them and play one side against the other. This allows them to push their own expansionism under the press-coverage of other issues. Basically, hiding behind the headlines.
On the other hand, Russia taking a black eye trying to reconquer a former territory must evoke some sweet, sweet tears in Beijing.
Maybe their best game is to suck Western arms production into Ukraine and then take advantage of a vacuum of them in Taiwan?
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Not that Prigozhin is trustworthy or moral, but I think the whipsawing of the last few weeks regarding his position, as "someone who will speak out" (lol) is indicative of an ambiguity in Russian leadership about messaging. There is dissent in their thinkership. It's evident in the milblogs. I don't think the inner sanctum is ignorant of that, and it remains to be seen how any sort of change, however creeping, might take hold.
But I'm pretty sure it's bubbling close under the surface.
You're so much more than that...you're OUR dipshit on the internet.
That'd go up on the fruit salad if you could boil it down to the size of a ribbon.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
buffnut453
Captain
Entirely agree but the only reason Prigozhin even has a voice is because Wagner was pushed into the spotlight due to the abysmal performance of the regular Russian military. Prigozhin, obviously, doesn't want to be the scapegoat and so his comments provide a form of insulation for the ongoing blame-game.
Prigozhin and the mil bloggers feel emboldened to speak at least a little more truth than the Kremlin because the latter's message has been such palpable nonsense. The multiple Peewee Herman memes in this thread ("I meant to do that") are testament to that simple fact. Had ANYTHING worked as planned for the Russian invasion, we wouldn't be seeing these fracture points.
I agree it's bubbling close to the surface. I just worry what will happen if/when it boils over.
buffnut453
Captain
He does the same to pretty much everyone. A glance at his profile just shows a bunch of "optimistic" awards. He does seem to contribute on other threads...so not sure why he's acting like he is on this thread.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Right, what we're seeing here is another form of "who -- whom?" Putin can't afford to cast him away because Wagner has been the only half-assed credible force on the Russian side. But at the same time, Putin can't afford to give him the credit for a victory after a year of defeats while Prigozhin is clearly angling for a higher seat.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
A side effect that China hadn't considered, is that Japan, for the first time since WWII, is building a military that's no longer defensive.
Japan's position is such, that they have to consider national survival beyond that of U.S. protection in the region.
If I were in a position of authority in China's upper echelon, I'd be seeing the red flags put up not only by Japan's emerging military, but that of South Korea and especially India.
The CCP is playing a dangerous game who's only outcome will be a serious ass-kicking.
ARTESH
Chief Master Sergeant
Good point is that he has at least a few posts! So, we are sure it's not a bot!
