"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (8 Viewers)

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

GTX said:
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting/hoping for Sth Korea to do anything. They haven't exactly been forthcoming with support for Ukraine so far.
Click to expand...
Good point, and as IIRC, Ukraine's biggest supporter after the US, I don't mean to pick on the Germans. But there may be greater political risk by tying your defence manufacturing to whomever is in power in Berlin than, for example South Korea.
 
Last edited:
RogerdeLluria said:
Now that there seems to be a green light for F-16. What about some F-18 too. Not instead of F-16 but in addition to F-16.

www.thedrive.com

Australia's Mothballed F/A-18 Hornets Should Be Given To Ukraine

Dozens of upgraded F/A-18s in storage in Australia after years waiting to be sent to the U.S. should be donated immediately to Ukraine.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
Click to expand...

We have not shut down the assembly line yet. Anybody want to build some for Ukraine?
 
RogerdeLluria said:
Now that there seems to be a green light for F-16. What about some F-18 too.
Click to expand...
I've read that there are issues of series consistency with the F-16, with potential donor aircraft from different countries each having different systems and displays, resulting in challenges for training. For example, Belgium, Denmark, and Norway are reportedly willing to supply Ukraine with F-16s, but all three operate different versions and/or upgrades of an otherwise externally identical aircraft. Introducing Hornets or another type may make the issues worse.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I've read that there are issues of series consistency with the F-16, with potential donor aircraft from different countries each having different systems and displays, resulting in challenges for training. For example, Belgium, Denmark, and Norway are reportedly willing to supply Ukraine with F-16s, but all three operate different versions and/or upgrades of an otherwise externally identical aircraft. Introducing Hornets or another type may make the issues worse.
Click to expand...
Originally the orders for Belgium/Netherlands/Norway and Denmark were for various blocks of A/B models (A-1 through to A-15 OCU, unsure of the B models), but I thought those remaining in service went through the MLU early/mid 2000's and were all updated to similar standard as F-16AM/BM's?
 
This might get spicy (Source: BBC):

The governor of Russian Belgorod region, Vyacheslav Gladkov, says a group of Ukrainian soldiers has crossed the border into his region, which lies just north of Ukraine's second city, Kharkiv.
"A reconnaissance and subversive group of the Ukrainian armed forces has entered Gayvoron district. The Russian armed forces together with the border force, National Guard and FSB are taking steps necessary to liquidate the enemy," he said on Telegram.
Videos circulating online appear to show military vehicles - including a US-made Humvee of the type used by Ukraine - entering Russia's Gayvoron checkpoint on the border with Ukraine.
The BBC has confirmed the location shown in the videos by comparing the distinctive buildings shown in them to those in publicly available satellite imagery showing the checkpoint. We have also confirmed they were uploaded earlier today by using software which checks them against existing videos on the internet - it found nothing posted before today matched them.
Ukraine's Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) has confirmed that an operation was under way in Belgorod region, and said that it only involved units comprised of Russian nationals fighting for Ukraine.
"The Russian Volunteer Corps and the Freedom of Russia Legion, which comprise Russian citizens, have today started an operation to liberate these parts of Belgorod region from the so-called Putin regime and push the enemy back to create a certain security strip to protect Ukrainian civilians," GUR spokesman Andriy Yusov told Suspilne TV.
In the past, Ukraine has generally neither confirmed or denied operations that appeared to target Russian territory.
 
An interesting observation from the UK MOD Today

Russia is creating an 'Elite' attack aviation group called 'Shtorm' to operate over Ukraine. It should contain at least one squadron of Su24, one squadron of Su35 fighter bombers and one squadron of attack helicopters.
Credible Russian media sources suggest that the Russian MOD aims to attract the best pilots by offering large incentives and opening the recruitment to retired aviators.

It says so little but equally says so much.
a) The Russian airforce has had some losses but is in many ways untouched. In the hundreds of operational aircraft and many dozens of units, they cannot find three squadrons capable of fighting on the front line?
b) Is their training so poor they have to rely on retired aircrew to man these aircraft, What have they been doing for the last 12 months, making daisy chains?
c) What makes them think that retired aircrew are current on the aircraft?
d) Its highly unlikely that they will be physically fit enough for the front line, let alone up to date on front line tactics.
e) Maybe now we know why Putin is so worried about the Ukraine forces getting the F16. Over Ukraine which is where this unit is supposed to operate the Ukraine AF with F16's would tear them apart
 
I caught a BBC video this morning that identified 7 problems facing Russia. One of the problems was manpower and, according g to the UK MOD, the Russian military is now following Wagner's lead in trying to recruit convicts in an attempt to reduce demand for conscripts. It's an interesting wrinkle that further highlights the no-win situation the Kremlin has conspired to create through its ineptitude.
 
syscom3 said:
Yes it was designed to fight in that enviornment. The difference though is it was dedigned a half century ago. The threats it will face now are far more deadly.
Click to expand...

The F-16 was designed in the same era.

As for facing threats, the F-16 has one advantage -- speed, but you can't outrun a missile. It also has one (as opposed to two) engines, slung under (rather than over) the fuselage.

I grant that 400 kts is not a lot of get-away, but that's more about enemy fighters than missiles.

Like I said earlier, I get the problems with survivability going low and slow over the battlefield, but those problems are going to affect any non-stealthy platform doing CAS/BAI with loitering being something of a requirement.
 
Glider said:
An interesting observation from the UK MOD Today

Russia is creating an 'Elite' attack aviation group called 'Shtorm' to operate over Ukraine. It should contain at least one squadron of Su24, one squadron of Su35 fighter bombers and one squadron of attack helicopters.
Credible Russian media sources suggest that the Russian MOD aims to attract the best pilots by offering large incentives and opening the recruitment to retired aviators.

It says so little but equally says so much.
a) The Russian airforce has had some losses but is in many ways untouched. In the hundreds of operational aircraft and many dozens of units, they cannot find three squadrons capable of fighting on the front line?
b) Is their training so poor they have to rely on retired aircrew to man these aircraft, What have they been doing for the last 12 months, making daisy chains?
c) What makes them think that retired aircrew are current on the aircraft?
d) Its highly unlikely that they will be physically fit enough for the front line, let alone up to date on front line tactics.
e) Maybe now we know why Putin is so worried about the Ukraine forces getting the F16. Over Ukraine which is where this unit is supposed to operate the Ukraine AF with F16's would tear them apart
Click to expand...
My take is that Russia has much more military equipment than what it actually can man. A side issue is if such equipment is in working condition or just junk. E.g. Russia was estimated to have almost 20.000 tanks. We now know that most are just junk, and they don't have the crews to man them anyway.

I think that something similar happens with planes. They have a lot, on paper. But how many are actually in flying condition? Besides that I think they don't even have enough pilots to man them all. I already suggested that Russia may lack experienced pilots. So it doesn't surprise me that they try to get retired pilots back.
 
buffnut453 said:
This might get spicy (Source: BBC):

The governor of Russian Belgorod region, Vyacheslav Gladkov, says a group of Ukrainian soldiers has crossed the border into his region, which lies just north of Ukraine's second city, Kharkiv.
"A reconnaissance and subversive group of the Ukrainian armed forces has entered Gayvoron district. The Russian armed forces together with the border force, National Guard and FSB are taking steps necessary to liquidate the enemy," he said on Telegram.
Videos circulating online appear to show military vehicles - including a US-made Humvee of the type used by Ukraine - entering Russia's Gayvoron checkpoint on the border with Ukraine.
The BBC has confirmed the location shown in the videos by comparing the distinctive buildings shown in them to those in publicly available satellite imagery showing the checkpoint. We have also confirmed they were uploaded earlier today by using software which checks them against existing videos on the internet - it found nothing posted before today matched them.
Ukraine's Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) has confirmed that an operation was under way in Belgorod region, and said that it only involved units comprised of Russian nationals fighting for Ukraine.
"The Russian Volunteer Corps and the Freedom of Russia Legion, which comprise Russian citizens, have today started an operation to liberate these parts of Belgorod region from the so-called Putin regime and push the enemy back to create a certain security strip to protect Ukrainian civilians," GUR spokesman Andriy Yusov told Suspilne TV.
In the past, Ukraine has generally neither confirmed or denied operations that appeared to target Russian territory.
Click to expand...
More on that "green little men" issue.


View: https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1660617001046343681
 
From yesterday's ISW brief:

US President Joe Biden stated on May 21 that the US will train Ukrainian pilots on fourth-generation aircraft, including F-16s, to augment Ukraine's defense capabilities in the long term. Biden stated that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky gave him a "flat assurance" that Ukrainian forces will not use Western-provided F-16s to strike Russian territory.[31] Biden reiterated that Ukraine will not use F-16s in its anticipated counteroffensive and framed the provision of F-16s as part of a longer-term effort to augment Ukraine's defensive capabilities as Ukraine's operational needs evolve.[32] Biden expanded on this argument, stating that the US did not pledge to send Ukraine tanks earlier because Ukraine did not need tanks earlier.[33] ISW has assessed that the need to send Ukraine Western tanks, including M1s, became apparent in June 2022.[34]

ISW previously assessed in January 2023 that delays in the provision to Ukraine of Western long-range fires systems, advanced air defense systems, and tanks have limited Ukraine's ability to take advantage of opportunities for larger counter-offensive operations presented by flaws and failures in Russian military operations.[35] The inevitable delay between the pledge to send such systems and the Ukrainians' ability to use them calls for the provision of such systems at the earliest indications that they will be required, not when the situation becomes dire.[36] Had Western leaders started setting conditions for Ukraine to use Western tanks in June 2022, when the first clear indicators appeared that Western tanks would be needed, Ukrainian forces would have been able to start using them in November or December. The continual delays in providing Western materiel when it became apparent that it is or will soon be needed have thus contributed to the protraction of the conflict.[37]

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.
www.understandingwar.org www.understandingwar.org

Hear, hear!
 
Admiral Beez said:
Good point, and as IIRC, Ukraine's biggest supporter after the US, I don't mean to pick on the Germans. But there may be greater political risk by tying your defence manufacturing to whomever is in power in Berlin than, for example South Korea.
Click to expand...
South Korea is way down the list of supporters and from what I understand their support has been mainly in the form of some uniforms and non-lethal military and medical supplies such as bulletproof vests, helmets, medical supplies and MREs back in March 2022.

The below graphs, albeit a couple of months out of date now, provide a good snapshot of who is doing what:

total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine.png


bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • Total: 9 (members: 2, guests: 7)

    Similar threads

    M
    All V-22's Grounded
    Replies
    2
    Views
    736
    GTX
    GTX
    M
    All This For The Low, Low Price of .....
    Replies
    19
    Views
    1K
    MIflyer
    M
    A
    Canada seeks to join non-nuclear pillar of AUKUS alliance
    2
    Replies
    26
    Views
    1K
    Admiral Beez
    A
    S
    Request help identifying type of aircraft
    Replies
    4
    Views
    586
    MiTasol
    MiTasol
    M
    What Happened To All Those Advanced Missiles?
    Replies
    1
    Views
    695
    Admiral Beez
    A
    Back