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re AMX10RC

The reason for the light armour on the AMX10RC is partly due to the airlift and general transportability requirement (including the ability to use/cross lighter load bridges in European and overseas countries. Also, the original requirement called for amphibious capability. The rest was for speed as a reconnaissance and rapid response asset

The French are & were aware of the thin armour issues, and issued up-armour kits to reduce the shrapnel problem. I do not know how the units sent to Ukraine are outfitted.

Note that some shrapnel from 152/155mm HE rounds can be quite large and depending on the distance can penetrate upto 1" of homogeneous armour (this is not common but does happen on occasion). I do not know what size shrapnel penetrated the Ukrainian vehicle(s) referenced, but which would you rather have - a vehicle with enough armour to stop 50/60/61/81/82/107 and probably 120mm mortar shrapnel, most 105/122mm shrapnel, and some 152/155mm+ shrapnel? - or no armour?

Note that the armour on the basic vehicle is about the same as on most other nation's contemporary (1970-1990) reconnaissance vehicle designs. To criticize the AMX10RC for its light armour is pointless at best.

The French have been replacing their AMX10RC variants with the "EBRC Jaguar - Wikipedia" since early 2022. The AMX10RC and its variants were designed for the end of the Cold War period. The EBRC Jaguar (and VBMR Griffon) are designed for the more current battlefield, and are armoured to STANAG 4569 Level 4 - this specification includes a minimum level of level of protection vs 14.5mm MG, 155mm shrapnel, and mines. MRAPs are 'only' built to a mix of STANAG 4569 Level 2, 3, & 4.

In general, STANAG 4569 protection goes up with the higher numbers - ie Level 3 is better protected than Level 2, Level 4 is better than Level 3, etc. Some Levels increase protection against some threat types while remaining the same vs other threat types.

If you are interested in what threat Levels various vehicles are protected against, type the vehicle's name into the search field along with the words "STANAG 4569" and you may get quite a bit of information. The basic STANAG 4569 standards can be found on Wiki at "STANAG 4569 - Wikipedia".
 
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Deleted post?

All very well if its in some other thread, but seems pretty germaine to the Ukraine. (?) Had it been posted here? - either way, not something I'd seen.
 
Glider said:
I admit to not being surprised by this report on the AMX10RC. However I did expect the armour to be sufficient to deal with shrapnel.

Source The Guardian

A Ukrainian commander has claimed the highly mobile French AMX-10 RC infantry fighting vehicles – sometimes described as light tanks – are "impractical" for frontline attacks, claiming one four-man crew has already died because of the vehicle's thin armour.

President Zelenskiy of Ukraine thanked France's President Macron for sending light combat tanks to Kyiv, and Oleksiy Reznikov, Ukraine's defence minister, was filmed riding in one.

Kyiv said in April that the French vehicles – designed for armed reconnaissance and attacks on enemy tanks – were already in service.

But AFP reports that a 34-year-old battalion commander within the 37th Marine Brigade, who uses the call sign Spartanets, said the tanks' "thin armour" means they can be used as fire support, but not in frontline assaults.

"Unfortunately, there was one case when the crew died in the vehicle," the major told AFP.

"There was artillery shelling and a shell exploded near the vehicle, the fragments pierced the armour and the ammunition set detonated." The crew of four inside were all killed, he said.

"The guns are good, the observation devices are very good. But unfortunately there is thin armour and it is impractical to use them in the front line (attack)," Spartanets said.

The battalion commander reportedly compared the French-built vehicles unfavourably with MRAP-type armoured vehicles such as the US's Oshkosh and Britain's Husky, which he said could resist a direct strike by rocket-propelled grenades.
Click to expand...
Anybody calling these things "tanks" should be demoted to latrine cleaner.
 
LONDON, July 3 (Reuters) - Dmitry Medvedev, Russia's former president, has warned that Moscow's confrontation with the West will last decades and that its conflict with Ukraine could become permanent.

Medvedev, once seen in the West as a liberal moderniser, has emerged as one of Russia's most outspoken hawks since Moscow launched what it called a "special military operation" in Ukraine last year.

Now deputy head of the Security Council, his views reflect some of the thinking at the Kremlin's top level, according to Russian officials.

In an article for the government's Rossiiskaya Gazeta newspaper, he said tensions between Russia and the West were "much worse" than during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis when the world teetered on the edge of a nuclear conflagration.

A nuclear war was "quite probable" but was unlikely to have any winners, said Medvedev, who has repeatedly said Western support for Ukraine increases the chances of nuclear conflict.

He cited sharp differences over Ukraine, the direction of humankind, and the way the world order was structured.

www.reuters.com

Russia's Medvedev says standoff with West to last decades, Ukraine conflict 'permanent'

Dmitry Medvedev, Russia's former president, has warned that Moscow's confrontation with the West will last decades and that its conflict with Ukraine could become permanent.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com



Forgive my belaboring the obvious, but if this war lasts "forever" it will sink any Russian government making it thus. Is he really so stupid that he's threatening the West that Russia will climb into a quagmire?

This is all bluster.
 
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