Alternative German Fighters: Me-209, Me-309, He-100, etc.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

look, as i've said, the germans had thousands of designs that were just that designs, there's proberly a german design that looks similar to every modern plane! that doesn't mean nessisarily that the design was copied..........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You are correct, they were not copied but a lot of post war designs (most post war designs through 1960) were influenced by German WW2 designs.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Indeed. The Germans were way ahead of their time coming up with designs like those.

 

[plan_D]

There's certainly no doubt about that. They were far ahead in advance technology in aeronautical engineering and rocket technology.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i never said they were not and i'm not deneying there may have been some influence, but to claim that we copied their designs as he is doing is stupid.......

 

[plan_D]

I know...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and most of the designs he's talking about were scarcely more that doodles, you cannot copy the design of a plane if it's just a doodle........

 

[Smokey]

Often designs have many influences

For example;

The Harrier is often cited as an example of British ingenuity and indeed this amazing aircraft is the product of much dedicated work by British Aerospace (and the earlier Hawker Siddeley company) along with Rolls-Royce. However the early Harrier development was largely paid for by the U.S. taxpayer via the Mutual Weapons Development Program (MWDP) and the starting point for the design of the Harrier's Pegasus engine was the work of Michel Wibault, a French engineer.

http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/Harrier/Harrier.html
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avav81.html

Frenchman Michel Wibault developed the breakthrough idea of using swiveling exhaust nozzles to vector the jet thrust, which eliminated the need for multiple engines.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/hawker_kestrel.htm

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

of course they have influences, i never said they didn't..........

 

[red admiral]

The rules of aerodynamics and physics remain the same regardless. Whittle patented the jet engine in 1928 ergo everyone else in the world must have copied him. People have to come to a similar solution to problems else they don't work. Why does Concorde look like the Tupolev 144? Because if it looked like a giant shoe it wouldn't fly. Why do the Mustang, MB5 and CAC Kangaroo look so similar? Because it works.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

that's a very good way of putting it..........

 

[Smokey]

Yep, this is obvious and has been observed on numerous occasions. there's even a saying about it I believe.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Well lanc, one design that was not a doodle was the Fw190A that had great influence on the Hawker Tempest II. The cowling/engine installation was examined by the Brits and adopted for the Tempest II. There is Brit documentation out there but your junior school library would not have it.

I can't help it you have trouble understanding your mother language. To refresh your memory, this is what I said on the Victor,

"The wing of the HP Victor was based on the work of Kosin and Lehmann who had done at least 3 versions of the crescent wing for the Ar 234."

"The crescent wing of the Victor came from German research. See Versuchsflugel I, II and IV for the Ar234."

Do you see copy/copied anywhere?

 

[plan_D]

However the early Harrier development was largely paid for by the U.S. taxpayer via the Mutual Weapons Development Program (MWDP)

What in gods name that has to do with design of the aircraft - I'll never know. It's not like the U.S didn't get any Harriers or anything. The key term of "Mutual Weapons Development Program" being mutual of course - since it wasn't a one way street.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Another of the many projected high altitude interceptors, the Blohm Voss P.205:

Blohm Voss had been working on the Bv P205, this had a different layout to the Bv 155B originally intended to have the 4,000 hp 24-cylinder, water-cooled, Argus As 413. Due to the expected un-availability of this engine the Bv P205 in its final form it was to be powered by the DB 603U. The BV P205 eliminated the two large wing-mounted radiators, shortened the wing span and reduced the landing gear wheel track. An annular radiator was incorporated in the nose, while two moderately large radiator air scoops were positioned on either side of the fuselage, near the cockpit. Clearly Blohm Voss thought that the Bv P205 had potential, with reducing the number of radiators and changing the engine cooling system could save weight reduce drag.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Thankyou for getting us back on topic.

 

[Smokey]

german heavy fighter Focke-Wulf Fw187 (pre-WW2)

http://mitglied.lycos.de/lastdingo/

It seems Goering's bias towards Messerschmitt led to a massive reduction in the Luftwaffe's ability, particularly over long range; the Fw187 had a range of 3000 miles
Also;
1) according to one pilot its turning circle was similar to the me109 and its roll rate almost as good as the me109

2) it climb rate was superior

3) and it had better armament

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Favoritism played a big part in who got what contracts and it led to a large amount of aircraft that could have been and that did hurt the Luftwaffes capability.

 

[cheddar cheese]

If the Fw-187 got the contract instead of the Me-110, then who knows what the BoB would have been like....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Because of mistakes made by the Germans nothing would have changed.