Alternative German Fighters: Me-209, Me-309, He-100, etc.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That said the Me-309B looks sleeker and potentially more impressive than the first Me-309.

I agree, I personally believe if the Germans had wanted to the 309 could have been a good aircraft she just had to be developed more.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Yeah. It wasnt needed though, they had the Fw-190D's and late Bf-109's instead.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed.

 

[cheddar cheese]

What do you know about the Me-209 Adler? Wasnt that just a racer that was designated as the 209 to boost morale or something?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No actually it was 2 projects itself.

The first one was the Me-209 which was a race plane but was never adopted for combat use. The Me-209-II was designed as a replacement for the Bf-109 but ofcourse this never happened.

Me-209

Messerschmitt's designation Me 209 was actually used for two separate projects during World War II. The first, described below, was a record-setting single-engined race plane for which little or no consideration was given to adaptation for combat. The second, the Me 209-II was a proposal for an enhanced version of the highly successful Messerschmitt Bf 109 which served as the Luftwaffe's primary fighter throughout World War II.

The first Me 209 was in fact a completely new aircraft whose designation was used by Messerschmitt as a propaganda tool. Although the plane was designed only to break speed records, it was hoped that its name would associate it and its world-beating performance with the Bf 109 already in combat service.

The Me 209 was constructed in 1937 and shared only its Daimler-Benz DB 601 engine with the Bf 109. Willy Messerschmitt designed the small plane with a cockpit placed far back along the fuselage just in front of its unique cross-shaped tail section. Unlike the Bf 109, the Me 209 featured a broad-track undercarriage mounted in the wing section instead of the fuselage. The plane achieved its purpose when test-pilot Fritz Wendel flew it to a new world speed record of almost 756 km/h (470 mph) on April 26, 1939.

The idea of adapting the Me 209 racer to the fighter role gained momentum when, during the Battle of Britain, the Bf 109 failed to gain superiority over RAF Spitfires. The little record-setter, however, was not up to the task of air combat. Its wings were almost completely occupied by the engine's liquid cooling system and therefore prohibited conventional installation of armament. The plane also proved difficult to fly and extremely hard to control on the ground. Nevertheless, the Messerschmitt team made several attempts to improve the aircraft's performance by giving it longer wings, a taller tailplane, and installing two MG 17 guns in the engine cowling. Its various modifications, however, added so much weight that the plane ended up slower than the contemporary Bf 109E.

This first Me 209 project was soon cancelled, and though it never went into wide-scale production, Messerschmitt's design did make its mark with its impressive speed record, which was not broken by another piston-engined aircraft until August 16, 1969, by Darryl G. Greenmayer's highly modified F8F Bearcat.

A fuselage of the Me 209 is currently on display at the Polish Museum of Aviation in Cracow, Poland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_209

General characteristics
Crew: one, pilot
Length: 7.24 m (23 ft 9 in)
Wingspan: 7.80 m (25 ft 7 in)
Powerplant: 1x Daimler-Benz DB 601ARJ, 1,342 kW (1,800 hp)

Performance
Maximum speed: 755 km/h (470 mph)


Me-209-II

The second incarnation of the Me 209 project came in 1943 when Willy Messerschmitt proposed an heavily modified version of his extremely successful but aging Me 109. This Me 209 would compete against Focke-Wulf's high performance Fw 190D-9 and Ta 152 fighters. Like these enhanced versions of Kurt Tank's design, the new Me 209 would share most of its airframe with a proven model, in this case the Me 109G. This marked a departure from the first failed Me 209 and later Me 309 projects which had proposed completely new designs.

Unfortunately for the design team, the Me 209's proposed DB 603 engine was in short supply and they were forced to use the Jumo 213E engine which offered inferior performance. The Me 209 featured a new tail section, broad-track landing gear, a taller tail, and an annular radiator which gave the engine a superficial resemblance to a radial powerplant. As with the original 209 project, however, successive modifications undermined the original purpose of the plane, in this case to build a superior fighter as similar to the existing Me 109G as possible.

As the project progressed, increasingly cumbersome designations signalled the Me 209's evolution from a simple, enhanced version of the Bf 109 to a progressively incompatible airframe. The Me 209 V5 featured armament of one MK 108 and two MG 131 in the wingroots. The V6 was the first version to be converted to use the Jumo 213 engine and had MG 151/20 guns instead of the MG 131. The Me 209H V1 was a high-altitude variant with extended wings and reverted to the DB 603.

Despite this proliferation of variants however, the program met a swift end when the Me 209 V5 prototype first flew in late 1944. It was 50 km/h (31 mph) slower than the already-available Fw 190D, however, and offered no improvement in handling characteristics. After its disappointing show, the Me 209 project was cancelled and with it ended Messerschmitt's last attempt to build a high-performance piston engine fighter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_209-II

General characteristics
Crew: one, pilot
Length: 9.74 m (31 ft 11 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
Height: 4.00 m (13 ft 1 in)
Wing area: 17.2 m² (185 ft²)
Empty: 3,339 kg (7,346 lb)
Loaded: 4,085 kg (8,987 lb)
Maximum takeoff: kg ( lb)
Powerplant: 1x Db 603G, 1,397 kW (1,900 hp)

Performance
Maximum speed: 678 km/h (423 mph)
Range: 600 km (374 miles)
Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,080 ft)
Wing loading: 238 kg/m² (49 lb/ft²)
Power/Mass: 0.36 kW/kg (0.22 hp/lb)

Armament
1x 30 mm MK 108 cannon
2x 13 mm MG 131 machine guns

 

[cheddar cheese]

Aha cool, thanks 8)

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Robert Johnson (P-47 ace) claimed many of his victories as ME-209s. I suspect he was actually seeing 109Gs?!?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Must have because not that many were built.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

my god that looks nothing like a -109..........

 

[cheddar cheese]

The 209-II does.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but the -209 doesn't........

 

[cheddar cheese]

Well no, because it wasnt supposed to look like a 109

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Lanc it never was. It was a completely different plane from teh 109. It was never intended for combat and never was inteded to be anything like the 109. It was a world recored break9ing race plane.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Me-209 V-1

Me-209 V-4

Profiles Me-209II A-1 and A-2

 

[CharlesBronson]

The Messerschmitt/Blohm Voss Bv 155

The saga of the BV 155 high altitude interceptor actually began at Messerschmitt in the spring of 1942. At that time, it was known under the designation of Me 155, and was a company proposal for a carrier-based single seat fighter.

Originally named as BF-109ST ausf II ( ST meaning schwere trägerflugzeugjager or heavy carrierborne fighter) the new design was different enough to be denominated Me-155.

The Me 155 was intended to be based aboard the Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier, then under construction. In the interest of economy and simplicity, the Me 155 was to use as many Bf 109 components as possible, being basically a navalized version of the earlier Messerschmitt fighter. The Me 155 was to be powered by a DB 605A-1 liquid-cooled engine of 1475 hp with anular radiator . The fuselage was more-or-less that of the standard Bf 109G, but with an entirely new wing.

Me-155 first draft (BF-109ST)

The undercarriage retracted inwards into wing wells, providing the wider track required for safe carrier landings. Standard naval equipment such as folding wings, catapult spools, and arrester gear were to be fitted. Proposed armament was an engine mounted 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 13-mm MG 131 machine guns in wings. Estimated maximum speed of 403 mph.

Detail design of the Me 155 was complete by Sept 1942. However, the numerous delays in the Graf Zeppelin seemed to indicate that the launching of the carrier would be at least two years away. Messerschmitt was told to shelve the Me 155 project for the indefinite future. In the event, work on the Graf Zeppelin carrier was abandoned in favor of making more submarines

Me-155A

In order that all of that work on the Me 155 project not go entirely to waste, Messerschmitt adapted its design in November 1942 to fulfill a Luftwaffe requirement for a fast single seat bomber. A single 2205 lb SC 1000 bomb was to be carried. All of the carrier equipment and most of the armament was removed from the aircraft. Additional fuel cells were provided and an elongated, non- retractable tailwheel was added to provide ground clearance for the large bomb. The proposal was designated Me 155A.

Me-155A

Making the high altitude Fighter:

By the end of 1942, the increasing number of USAAF bombing raids and intelligence coming in about the new American B-29 bomber led the Luftwaffe to envisage a pressing need for an effective high-altitude interceptor. The Messerschmitt outfit adapted its design to this requirement under the designation Me 155B. The engine was to be the DB 628, which was basically a DB 605A with a two-stage mechanical supercharger with an induction cooler. A pressure cabin was to be provided. It was estimated that a service ceiling of 14100 metres (46,250 feet) could be attained.

A converted Bf 109G adapted to take the DB 628 engine flew in May 1942 and attained an amazing altitude of 15235 metres. However, the Technische Amt concluded that a DB 603A engine with an exhaust-driven turbosupercharger was more promising. The DB 603A provided 1610 hp for takeoff and 1450 hp at 49,210 feet

Messerschmitt Bf-109 Versuchs 50 mit DB-628

This engine change required that the fuselage be elongated in order to house the turbosupercharger aft of the pressure cabin. Exhaust gases were carried to the turbosupercharger via external ducts. Air was drawn in through via a ventral trough aft of the wing. Standard Bf 109G wings were to be fitted outboard of a new, long-span, untapered wing center section. Other parts were scavenged from existing Messerschmitt designs --- the vertical tail was from the Me 209, and the horizontal tail and the undercarriage were taken from the Bf 109G.

In August 1943, the Technische Amt decided that Messerschmitt was over-committed, and they decided to transfer the work on the design to the Blohm und Voss outfit.

to be continued....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap. The Me-155B was the high alltitude version of the Me-155A which was the Carrier based verson. The 155B was never intended to launch from Carriers. In 1943 when the Carrier program was canceled so was the Me-155A. The 155B continued but with no great priority.

In August of 1943 the RLM transferred the development work to Blohm and Voss. BV was to undertake the work on Stage III and Messerschmitt was to continue work on Stage I. There was no Stage II allocated to anyone.

Under Blohm and Voss, Stage III became the Blohm and Voss BV-155 and underwent a certain amount of design changes. The name was not changed from Me-155B to BV-155B until the end of 1944 when the first prototype was completed. It first flew on 8 Feb. 1945.

Type: High-Altitude Interceptor
Origin:Blohm undVoss, Abt. Flugzeugbau
Models: A &B
First Flight: September 1, 1944
Service Delivery: None
Final Delivery: None

Engine:
Type: DB 603A with TKL 15 turbocharger
Horsepower: 1,450 hp at 49,210 ft. (15,000m)

Dimensions:
Wing span: 20.5m (67 ft. 3 in.)
Length: 12.00m (39ft. 4½ in.)
Height: 2.98m (9 ft. 9½ in.)
Wing Surface Area: N/A
Weights:
Empty: 10,734 lb. (4870 kg)
Maximum: 13,262 lb. (6016 kg)

Performance:
Maximum Speed: 429 mph (690km/h)
Initial climb: N/A
Range: 895 miles (1440km) at high altitude
Service Ceiling: N/A

Armament:
Heavy groups of 15, 20 or 30mm cannon proposed

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

quite a good looking bird.........

 

[cheddar cheese]

I think that with the enormous wing radiators and inconsistant shape of the fuselage that its desperately ugly.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree the Me-155 looked pretty good but she was basically just a redesigned Me-109. However the BV-155B looked hidious.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Yeah the Me-155 is nice the the Bv-155 is foul.