Alternative German Fighters: Me-209, Me-309, He-100, etc.

• Jul 16, 2005

• #161

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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I don't know if you've ever even seen a Handley Page Victor, KK - but what designs was it supposed to represent?

It also had nothing to do with the Vulcan - since Britain was the first to fly a Delta-Wing aircraft. I do remember the time when you claimed that the Me-163 was Delta-Wing...

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #162

delcyros

Tech Sergeant

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Mar 2, 2005

Berlin (Kreuzberg)

I must disagree, Plan_D.
Lippisch designed Deltawing planes prior to outbreak of ww2.
Some of the planes (regard them as tech demonstratorFS 39/40) even flew prior to outbreak of ww2.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #163

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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Apr 1, 2004

Prove it - a full functional delta-wing aircraft? Pictures, information, dates...?

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #164

K

KraziKanuK

Banned

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4

Jan 26, 2005

I remember you claiming that a Tiger could be taken out easily by the guns of an a/c.

Actually, I have some very nice detailed plans of the Victor drawn by A.L. Bentley.

Well I can't help it you have trouble reading pD. The crescent wing of the Victor came from German research. See Versuchsflugel I, II and IV for the Ar234.

No doubt you will claim the DH108 was a completely original British design and the Me163 had no influence dispite the Air Ministry specification E 18/45 was not issued til early 1946.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #165

K

KraziKanuK

Banned

792

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Jan 26, 2005

Notice 'delta' in the name of this Lippisch design, DFS40 Delta V, that flew in 1931.

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/lippisch.html

No doubt pD will claim this is not a delta.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #166

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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And you never disproved it - your claim against it was that rounds bounce at the same angle as they bounce in. Plus - it's a well known fact a Hispano Mk.II with penertration of one round being 21 mm could penertrate 25 mm with several rounds.

The DH108 wasn't influenced by the Me-163 - it was a British prototype to discover the behaviour of the swept wing. That would mean it had been influenced by German swept-wing data - not just the Me-163.

I know it's hard for you, KK, but stop being a pussy. Provide your evidence in your post if you want everyone to see how well you can type requests into Google - don't try and make me waste my time.

del, the only information I have on Lippisch Delta-Wing designs was of a glider he flew in the 1940s. The patent of a Delta-Wing was granted in 1867 to J.W Butler and E. Edwards!

The Avro Type 707, to my knowledge, was the first powered Delta-Wing to fly. I'd be happy to read otherwise.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #167

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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No I won't, KK, because unlike you I don't come on here just to show off what I can get from the internet. But still British invention, 1867...

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #168

Nonskimmer

Captain

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Nov 11, 2004

Halifax, Nova Scotia

plan_D said:

But still British invention, 1867...

Click to expand...

Let's not go here, alright?
I've a feeling that in your quest to slam KK to the pavement you'd end up causing some unintended collateral damage.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #169

the lancaster kicks ass

Major General

19,937

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Dec 20, 2003

wait a minute KK, i've just noticed something, look at these two pictures, if you look very closely, both planes have wings, but the -109 flew first, what does this mean?? the people that designed the harrier obviously stole the idea of using wings from the germans!!

or perhaos they didn't, maybe, just possibly, this is one of many cases where designers came to the same conclusion to the same problem...........

 

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• Jul 16, 2005

• #170

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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And I don't follow what you mean, NS - but okay.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #171

Nonskimmer

Captain

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Halifax, Nova Scotia

Then by all means, carry on. Just remember...I'm Canadian too! :-"

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #172

delcyros

Tech Sergeant

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Mar 2, 2005

Berlin (Kreuzberg)

Then we need to define what a Deltwing plane is, my friend.
If you only accept jet driven...okey.
But even then, the Avro plane is much influenced by the theoretical work of Lippisch and Steyer. Both wrote dozens of articles to the RLM in order to prove their conceptional way. Lippisch was way more successive, we know. After VE-day, the US shared some of the papers with the UK. At the time, the Avro-707 was in concept phase, the Deltawing was not only known by researchers because of the work of Lippisch but he also made subsequent wind tunnel tests of models, prooving, that his design may reduce the drag in trans and subsonic speeds compared to normal or even swept wing layout.
Keep in mind that his DM-1 glider directly led to the XF-92 Deltawing plane (first flight was on september 18th, 1948), which in your definition is the worlds first Delta.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #173

K

KraziKanuK

Banned

792

4

Jan 26, 2005

You asked for Lippisch designs. I gave you one and now you are having a snit fit. Show some maturity will you pD.

Keep living in your dream world of the 20mm 'killing' Tigers dispite you never showing any proof that they ever did. I know British pilots were such expert marksmen that they could put several 20mm in one spot at 300mph at naught feet.

Showing off? Think what you want. But then you are the expert on everything, and you claim I am showing off?

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #174

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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Apr 1, 2004

How are we going to define "Delta" then? I merely state the Avro Type 707 as being the first Delta-Wing aircraft to fly - I suppose I should have rephrased it to jet powered aircraft.

If we're going for first Delta Wing to fly - then it stems back to 1867 in Britain. I did forget about the XF-92 - so possibly that is the first jet Delta to fly. Lippisch certainly aided in the development of the Delta-Wing aircraft - there's no doubt about that but he didn't create the concept. Britain (and quite possibly America) had been toying with the idea for a long time but the speeds were just too low for a stable platform.

I wasn't going to insult Canada - NS - well, not right now anyway. I save that just for you.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #175

Nonskimmer

Captain

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Nov 11, 2004

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Oh, I'm sorry PD. I just assumed...I mean...Canada became a country in 1867, and KK is Canadian, and you were having an argument with him...I...I'll go hang my head and cry now...sorry.

Carry on folks, nothing to see here. Good discussion everyone.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #176

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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Apr 1, 2004

Don't lie, NS, Canada isn't a country. Not a real one anyway.

Oh, you got me started!


And the first patent of the Delta Wing was 1867 - it was mere coincidence.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #177

Nonskimmer

Captain

8,620

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Nov 11, 2004

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Too much South Park, eh? I like that show too.

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #178

plan_D

Lieutenant Colonel

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Apr 1, 2004

There was a Canadian (from Vancouver) at my school - he'd never seen it. We forced him to watch it and he couldn't stop laughing, especially at Terrance and Phillip!

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• #179

Nonskimmer

Captain

8,620

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Nov 11, 2004

Halifax, Nova Scotia

What's not to love about those two? They embody the Canadian spirit! Flappy heads and all!

 

• Jul 16, 2005

• Thread starter
• #180

CharlesBronson

Senior Master Sergeant

3,568

89

Jan 11, 2005

Cordoba - Argentina

Some particular looking aircraft and his comparations with others, not copies but some inspiration in similar designs.

Gloster Javelin and


… FMA IA-37

Horten Amerika Bomber and..



B-2 Spirit.

EMW A-6 and…



X-15

Focke-Wulf Twin-Engine Jet Fighter Projekt (Fw 250) …and



Super Mystere B2

And we can go on…and on.