American vs. European Colonialism

[michaelmaltby]

"...you can take a country over by putting it in debt and then calling the debt back."

What we have seen in Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain is consumers and countries living beyond their means .... no one was forced to buy a car they couldn't afford. A government that promises rewards and benefits it cannot afford is deceiving voters.

Germany has a strong economy because the country and culture encourages a strong work ethic.

"...economic imperialism"...??

Market share is more like it ...

 

[yulzari]

The trick with colonialism is to have your colonies contiguous to your country. This worked for USA and Russia and is still working for China. 'No, we don't have colonies. They are part of our country'. France tried it with Algeria but it didn't work due to the Mediterranean.

The only difference between the British empire and it's predecessors was that it grew originally to make money, not gain power and influence. Hence the very real 18th century consideration of abandoning the American colonies as being loss making and keeping the Caribbean islands as profitable. Even the Raj was a company until the mid 19th century. Then the dirty money grubbers were elbowed aside by the righteous ponces like Cecil Rhodes as Britain started to believe it's own propaganda.

US foreign colonialism has been a colonialism by proxy. The British would move in and get the local leaders to rule the place for them. The US sought to get the same benefits without risking moving in. Hence their interference in Central and South America.

Lest it be thought that i am pointing the finger at anyone. I am pointing the finger at everyone. Every continent except Antartica has seen colonialism rampant for thousands of years and every nation/group/tribe has been guilty of it and been proud of doing so.

European colonialism is the (grubby and bloody) root of modern globalism which is raising the living standards of the world. As a Briton I welcome the growing wealth of the rest of the world. The more money the b*ggers have the more we can sell them! The global information revolution, from telegraph to mobile phones, means no bad deed goes hidden any more.

Modern colonialism is cultural but economically and politically enrichens all participants. Hungry peasants don't revolt against tyranny. The better fed and educated middle classes have been the ones to give voice to revolt and this is the growing future from mid 17th century England to 21st century North Africa.

BTW where is my bacon bar then?

 

[yulzari]

Japan was not necessarily isolated with Dutch and China but if I may dare to say Yes or No,
please let me say 'Yes', MM. That is what North Koreans still feel today as they hate threats from outside.
I can understand how they feel very well.

Yes. Japanese isolation was well overrated. Certainly Japanese pirates were taking no notice as the mercenaries of choice in the South China Seas (employed by British east India Company amongst others.)

I am reminded of how Japan was a valuable ally of Britain and was seen as such by the Royal Navy against the US Navy in the Pacific until the later 1920's. Unfortunately Japan picked up the Imperial habit just as it was going out of fashion. I wonder how much oil Britain would have sold Japan had Japan entered WW2 early on Britain's side and agreed to restrict expansion into China to Manchuria and Korea?

However, I digress from the thread and must put it up on another site as an historical what if.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

And it will, I was just throwing in what I believe to be a valid point that is all, because we all believe in free speech don't we.

Free speech in a PUBLIC un-moderated forum. Understand that if we (the mods on this site) find comments insulting and/ or ignorant, we'll deal with it accordingly, up to and including banning the one making those comments. Stick to the facts and keep opinions to yourself, especially if they run the risk of pissing some one off!

 

[yulzari]

Ironic too, that Britain could abolish slavery and justify the opium trade with China ....

Trivia; but opium was perfectly legal in Britain if one cared to indulge and available in any chemists shop.

 

[Shinpachi]

I wonder how much oil Britain would have sold Japan had Japan entered WW2 early on Britain's side and agreed to restrict expansion into China to Manchuria and Korea?

Interesting opinion, yulzari.
Thank you very much

 

[fastmongrel]

I wonder how much oil Britain would have sold Japan had Japan entered WW2 early on Britain's side and agreed to restrict expansion into China to Manchuria and Korea?

It wasnt just Oil though I think it was also trade restrictions against Japan. No fan of the Japanese govt at the time but with hindsight it looked almost like the West was pushing Japan to attack.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"...perfectly legal..."

Not so in China ... which had a long history with the stuff ... and where it was illegal.

 

[pattle]

Free speech in a PUBLIC un-moderated forum. Understand that if we (the mods on this site) find comments insulting and/ or ignorant, we'll deal with it accordingly, up to and including banning the one making those comments. Stick to the facts and keep opinions to yourself, especially if they run the risk of pissing some one off!

If that is the case you must please let me know where I have not kept to the facts? Most if not all countries have skeletons in their closet, but it seems as though some people on here live in a playground world where it is acceptable for them to mention negative episodes in another countries history but unacceptable to hear of those in their own. A lot of what is written on here is opinion and indeed opinions are invited in most threads, am I to assume from your post that negative opinions regarding certain aspects of American history are not to be mentioned on here through fear of pissing people off?
As this is a forum mostly dedicated to World War Two it may be difficult to avoid mentioning things that run the risk of pissing people off, namely the Germans and Japanese.

 

[pattle]

The trick with colonialism is to have your colonies contiguous to your country. This worked for USA and Russia and is still working for China. 'No, we don't have colonies. They are part of our country'. France tried it with Algeria but it didn't work due to the Mediterranean.

The only difference between the British empire and it's predecessors was that it grew originally to make money, not gain power and influence. Hence the very real 18th century consideration of abandoning the American colonies as being loss making and keeping the Caribbean islands as profitable. Even the Raj was a company until the mid 19th century. Then the dirty money grubbers were elbowed aside by the righteous ponces like Cecil Rhodes as Britain started to believe it's own propaganda.

US foreign colonialism has been a colonialism by proxy. The British would move in and get the local leaders to rule the place for them. The US sought to get the same benefits without risking moving in. Hence their interference in Central and South America.

Lest it be thought that i am pointing the finger at anyone. I am pointing the finger at everyone. Every continent except Antartica has seen colonialism rampant for thousands of years and every nation/group/tribe has been guilty of it and been proud of doing so.

European colonialism is the (grubby and bloody) root of modern globalism which is raising the living standards of the world. As a Briton I welcome the growing wealth of the rest of the world. The more money the b*ggers have the more we can sell them! The global information revolution, from telegraph to mobile phones, means no bad deed goes hidden any more.

Modern colonialism is cultural but economically and politically enrichens all participants. Hungry peasants don't revolt against tyranny. The better fed and educated middle classes have been the ones to give voice to revolt and this is the growing future from mid 17th century England to 21st century North Africa.

BTW where is my bacon bar then?

It seems my bacon bar has also disappeared, I wonder if our opinions are being censored?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

If that is the case you must please let me know where I have not kept to the facts? Most if not all countries have skeletons in their closet, but it seems as though some people on here live in a playground world where it is acceptable for them to mention negative episodes in another countries history but unacceptable to hear of those in their own. A lot of what is written on here is opinion and indeed opinions are invited in most threads, am I to assume from your post that negative opinions regarding certain aspects of American history are not to be mentioned on here through fear of pissing people off?
As this is a forum mostly dedicated to World War Two it may be difficult to avoid mentioning things that run the risk of pissing people off, namely the Germans and Japanese.

"The self righteous attitude of Americans towards British and French imperialism during the 20th century is way to much for me to swallow."

That's a broad brush and VERY opinionated in MY opinion and considering you're playing in my sandbox I suggest you choose your words wisely. No I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here so I'd advise you to carry on with facts instead of blatant unsubstantiated remarks.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

It seems my bacon bar has also disappeared, I wonder if our opinions are being censored?

For the record no one to my knowledge is censoring anything...

 

[GrauGeist]

The Bacon feature is available once every 24 hours where likes and dislikes can be used in any amount during the same time period.

 

[pattle]

"The self righteous attitude of Americans towards British and French imperialism during the 20th century is way to much for me to swallow."

That's a broad brush and VERY opinionated in MY opinion and considering you're playing in my sandbox I suggest you choose your words wisely. No I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here so I'd advise you to carry on with facts instead of blatant unsubstantiated remarks.

Perhaps it is, but that is the way I have been made to feel by comments made regarding the British and French. I don't want to get into an argument over who started it but by natural law I believe I have a right of reply. I don't like to be threatened or have opinions forced on me so if you wish to ban me that is your choice.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

And for the record, both of my grandparents were "nationalized" as a result of living on Puerto Rico during the Spanish American War (they were citizens of Spain), my great grandfather committed suicide over it, so if you want some opinions of someone who's family actually had their destiny changed by "American Colonialism" fire away!!!!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

so if you wish to ban me that is your choice.

No, that will be your choice if this BS continues. I mentioned once, move on so now I strongly advise you to do so.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Bacon feature is available once every 24 hours where likes and dislikes can be used in any amount during the same time period.

No we are tyrants here who are taking peoples bacon away.

It seems my bacon bar has also disappeared, I wonder if our opinions are being censored?

Why would we do that? Seriously, just because you dislike me, and have a hardon for showing it you don't have to make childish statements like that. Statements that you know are not true.

 

[GrauGeist]

No we are tyrants here who are taking peoples bacon away.

Damn! That's just downright mean!!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No we are tyrants here who are taking peoples bacon away.





Why would we do that? Seriously, just because you dislike me, and have a hardon for showing it you don't have to make childish statements like that. Statements that you know are not true.

Damn! That's just downright mean!!

I like bacon, so I want yours too.

 

[pattle]

No we are tyrants here who are taking peoples bacon away.





Why would we do that? Seriously, just because you dislike me, and have a hardon for showing it you don't have to make childish statements like that. Statements that you know are not true.

I don't dislike you and I have no bad feelings against you either, it is just that I don't agree with your dismissive attitude towards my opinions.

I have been looking at how to close my account on here but there seems to be no way of doing so, if you could please close my account for me I would be grateful.