GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
You can spot the silver wartime nickels by the mint-mark being on the reverse, above Monticello.
Another 10000 P-36/40 aircraft?
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
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P-39 Expert
Non-Expert
The British only required a 100 hour test.
Admiral Beez
Major
When will the last of these extra 10,000 P-36 + P-40 aircraft be produced? In Aug 1939 the entire RAF had less than one thousand fighters.
wuzak
Captain
By August 1939 there was 1 P-40 (the XP-40)?
How many P-36s by then?
And additional 10,000 P-36/P-40s would, most likely, come in later years and would have to be made instead of other types - such as the P-51.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
About 215 P-36As for the USAAC, roughly 900+ for foreign contracts.
wuzak
Captain
Built - or on order?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The USAAC accepted it in 1938, so by 1940, the Army should have had it's full order.
The export versions were all over the place: Norway, China, France, Argentina, Britain, Persia...
Admiral Beez
Major
So, that's about 1,000 P-36 give or take by summer 1939. If Britain can have 5,000 by early 1941 the North African and Malayan campaigns will be different.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I'd be willing to bet you can hear the difference if you drop one onto a hard surface.
More like P-39 (for maybe five thousand more, I don't know about 10,000)
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,669
- May 13, 2018
Re the 1943 steel penny: Some genius always gets the idea to copper plate a steel penny because there were only five actual copper 1943 pennies minted. That's why coin dealers have a magnet handy. The steel pennies today have a high value of their own if the zinc coating is intact, because of rust under it.
Glider
Captain
The one place where an addition supply of P36 would have helped in in Poland, France and Norway. The P36 was a lot better than the Me109D which was in common use in those early months and it would hav made a difference
They did fairly well in the Battle of France, without a doubt. I suspect they would have helped in Malaya, Java, China and even on New Guinea, if they'd gotten there in time, and ideally with the somewhat better / improved versions that had armor and retractable gear.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Some book I read centuries ago (Great American Fighter Pilots of World War 2?) quoted an F4F pilot flying against Vichy French. He more or less said the French Hawks were tough competition.
I would say based on the combat record, they definitely were (as were the D.520s). They basically wore down most of a carrier air wing in about 2 days, I posted the casualties on on another thread on here a while back. I'll see if I can find it to link it here.
EDIT: Here is the thread. Operation Torch Air Battle
Over the two days of fighting, the French lost 25 aircraft, the British and Americans lost 52, including 16 x Wildcats and 5 x Hurricanes and 2 x Seafires. Just eyeballing it looks like French fighter losses were about half Hawk 75 and about half D.520
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One problem with the P-36 / Hawk 75 was they were already very near their design limits in terms of weight, while barely able to compete in terms of speed and altitude, and most (or all?) of the ones produced by 1941 did not have self sealing tanks, significant armor, or sufficient firepower. I think standard armament was either 6 x .30 cal or 2 x .50 cal or one of each. That might cut it against Japanese fighters but it's arguably insufficient against even Japanese bombers, and I'd say definitely not enough against German bombers. That said, many Soviet fighters only had two HMG in the nose so it wouldn't necessarily be a radical departure for them. They were trained to shoot at very close range etc.
Once you put all that armor etc. in, with the same engine, I suspect it becomes a dog. But if you don't put that in, you are going to have Japanese style pilot attrition.
So one big question, which I don't actually know the answer to, is could you make a Hawk 75 with some kind of self sealing fuel tanks, decent pilot armor, and say four .50 cals (or 2 .50 and 4 .30 like a Tomahawk) in time to matter? Or failing that do you switch to the P-40s and just make more of those earlier.
I know that the R-1830 engines for the F4F were improved, eventually, providing more power but I don't remember the specifics (was it a 2 speed supercharger? P&W Twin wasp or Wright Cyclone?). An engine like the one in the FM2 would certainly make a Hawk 75 more viable but I don't think those were around early enough.
Once you put all that armor etc. in, with the same engine, I suspect it becomes a dog. But if you don't put that in, you are going to have Japanese style pilot attrition.
So one big question, which I don't actually know the answer to, is could you make a Hawk 75 with some kind of self sealing fuel tanks, decent pilot armor, and say four .50 cals (or 2 .50 and 4 .30 like a Tomahawk) in time to matter? Or failing that do you switch to the P-40s and just make more of those earlier.
I know that the R-1830 engines for the F4F were improved, eventually, providing more power but I don't remember the specifics (was it a 2 speed supercharger? P&W Twin wasp or Wright Cyclone?). An engine like the one in the FM2 would certainly make a Hawk 75 more viable but I don't think those were around early enough.
Admiral Beez
Major
IMO the opportunity for greatest impact is RAF Malayan Command (and RAF North Africa). So many airfields below but only sixty active Buffaloes (plus Blenheim and Hudson bombers) to use them. Add twenty squadrons of two hundred and twenty active P-36s with another hundred or so spares along with better coordination and Japan will have something to think about.
Here's Curtiss' sales brochure for the P-36. There's a mention of bomb racks on pages 16 and 20. That would be useful in Malaya.
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