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The USAAF did not decide or choose its enemy, neither did it declare war, it was a military force that had to undeertake whatever task it was given o the best of its ability. You specifically stated that "they told the public in what amounts to little more than propaganda that strategic bombing could win the war, another lie." It quite obviously wasnt a lie, was it. In Europe the strategic bombing offensive left Germany without any industry or oil to fight with, and needing massive amounts o munitions at home to defend itself. No sensible, rational person could argue that the combined bomber offensive had no effect on the war in Europe. The doctrine argued by the "bomber mafia" did not include or exclude Europe or Japan, you only do so for the sake of Gregs argument.pbehn - We weren't talking about the Pacific, although I did say "the war." My mistake. Having said that, even in the Pacific there exists to this very day debate about whether or not the use of the atomic bomb was necessary or justifiable. I feel safe in saying that debate is not appropriate to have now. I don't believe that strategic bombing "won the war," in Europe, and I believe (in retrospect) that the air war in EU could have been run a lot better. IMHO (more opinions!) the EU war was decided at Stalingrad.
As I understand it, it doesnt have to even be a thunderstorm, you cannot fly a formation of 300 aircraft into a bank of heavy cloud, it will not be a formation when it comes out of the cloud and some, perhaps many will have hit each other. You certainly cannot drop bombs on targets from inside it.As both a pilot and someone with more than 30 years living in southern Germany I'd have to insert my humble not so much opinion that a thunderstorm does not have to be severe for aircraft to have to divert around it. Additionally, southern Germany gets its fait share of severe storms and tornadoes. Considering the small area it is confined to it can have a significant impact. There are on average 10 to 25 tornados per year in Germany. In an area the size of what, Illinois and Indiana maybe?
And yes, I currently live in the midwest, so I am aware of what "real severe weather" is.
Now I don't have a dog in everyone's debate here, other than insuring it remains civil. I just wanted to add in my 0.63 cents that weather does not have to be severe to divert around.
As I understand it, it doesnt have to even be a thunderstorm, you cannot fly a formation of 300 aircraft into a bank of heavy cloud, it will not be a formation when it comes out of the cloud and some, perhaps many will have hit each other. You certainly cannot drop bombs on targets from inside it.
Fixed it.theair wareverything in EU could have been run a lot better.
Fixed it.
Hindsight is wonderful.
Memos and letters are wonderful but they were written by men who sometimes did not have perfect knowledge. Or perhaps they desired certain outcomes without a clear idea of how to get there.
To Ferry tanks and Army regulations and AAC doctrine, pre-1939.Ok, you proved me wrong.
However, I was clearly speaking of the P47 in 1942 and 43, the critical time for the only plane capable of performing escort duties in Europe for all the reasons listed by others above. The one plane that might have mitigated the horrific losses.
I'll admit that I didn't know all those previous generations of lower performance airplanes had drop tanks. But now you've piqued my interest.....if drop tanks were "normal," why the memo doing away with them? Perhaps because the brass thought self protecting bombers didn't need them?
Fact is that the P-51--even more so I've found in recent months--was simply a great aircraft that did some remarkable things and did them extremely well, just like the Spitfire, Mosquito, P-38, P-47 and other designs. Granted, it did come at the expense of the P-47, which was largely relegated in the European Theater to being a tactical fighter, but it seems that it was Republic themselves who were mostly to blame for that. The Mustang being as great as it was was just the last nail in the casket until the P-47N, which to my knowledge was never fielded in the ETO.
I just wanted to add in my 0.63 cents that weather does not have to be severe to divert around.
Was there an option for drop tanks for Spitfires and Hurricanes during the BoB?From memory the 1939 memo isn't really relevant to later requirements at all.
The memo itself was more to do with interceptor aircraft protecting the US borders
as that was a priority at the time.
Spitfires and Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain eschewed drop tanks in favour of getting
off the ground and up to height faster.
In that respect the memo makes perfect sense for the time it was written.
That things changed after is not surprising given the different circumstances.
Just like bullseyeing womp rats at Beggar's Canyon.
It was also more than pretty hard to find a target under what was called "haze" or industrial and domestic pollution at the time. In cold still weather all industrial cities in Europe were covered by a cloud of crap, I am reliably informed that from 25,000 feet all clouds of crap look the same.
Coal power!!! that is ticket!!! keeps you free from foreign oil and keeps your cities invisible to pesky enemy bombersIt was also more than pretty hard to find a target under what was called "haze" or industrial and domestic pollution at the time. In cold still weather all industrial cities in Europe were covered by a cloud of crap, I am reliably informed that from 25,000 feet all clouds of crap look the same.
I used to work in London in an office block in Grosvenor Square, central London it is surrounded by big old houses, the number of chimney pots you see on thee top of them is quite literally "breath taking", and to help things along they built a coal fired power station there too at Battersea.Coal power!!! that is ticket!!! keeps you free from foreign oil and keeps your cities invisible to pesky enemy bombers
Pardon me while I cough up a lung.