Henk
Master Sergeant
Erich would you put up a pic of it please?
Henk
Henk
Anti-tank weapons
- Thread starter Erich
- Start date
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CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Erich had posted it already...check the first page of this topic. 
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Panzerwurfmine L.
The "antitank trowing mine" was developed because of the problems to stabilize the dedicated anti-tank grenades for flight - the shaped charge needed to be pointed straight at the armor to work efficiently - the Panzerwurfmine ("tank throw mine") or PWM (L) (L for "lang" = "long") was developed by the Luftwaffe weapon's bureau (the Luftwaffe also contained ground forces in the form of it's field units and the paratroopers).
The weapon weighed 1.36kg, had a length of 53.3cm and used a stabilizing assembly of four fins made of canvas at it's rear wich automatically deployed when lauch. It was introduced into service in May of 1943 but proved rather impractical. Still, 203,800 were produced in 1943.
It's successor model was the Panzerwurfmine Kz (Kz = kurz ("short")) that weighed only 1 kg. Flight stabilization now was achieved by a long canvas strip that rolled out when the weapon was thrown and extended from it's rear. The warhead had a diameter of 11.4 cm and carried a shaped charge of 500g that had an armor penetration of 150mm.
The "antitank trowing mine" was developed because of the problems to stabilize the dedicated anti-tank grenades for flight - the shaped charge needed to be pointed straight at the armor to work efficiently - the Panzerwurfmine ("tank throw mine") or PWM (L) (L for "lang" = "long") was developed by the Luftwaffe weapon's bureau (the Luftwaffe also contained ground forces in the form of it's field units and the paratroopers).
The weapon weighed 1.36kg, had a length of 53.3cm and used a stabilizing assembly of four fins made of canvas at it's rear wich automatically deployed when lauch. It was introduced into service in May of 1943 but proved rather impractical. Still, 203,800 were produced in 1943.
It's successor model was the Panzerwurfmine Kz (Kz = kurz ("short")) that weighed only 1 kg. Flight stabilization now was achieved by a long canvas strip that rolled out when the weapon was thrown and extended from it's rear. The warhead had a diameter of 11.4 cm and carried a shaped charge of 500g that had an armor penetration of 150mm.
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
PIATS were OK, as they had no backblast. They could also kill any tank if used properly/skillfully.
The PzShreck has 2x the AP ability of the 2.36 Bazooka (200mm vs 100mm), the 'Super-Bazooka' of the Korean war was developed from it.
The 'Faust 60 had less penetration than a 'Shreck CB IIRC. I think only the 'Faust 150 outperformed it?
Erich:
I wonder if all warheads were HEAT?
Did you see that guy in Black Hawk Down with an RPG in his chest? - Ouch!
The PzShreck has 2x the AP ability of the 2.36 Bazooka (200mm vs 100mm), the 'Super-Bazooka' of the Korean war was developed from it.
The 'Faust 60 had less penetration than a 'Shreck CB IIRC. I think only the 'Faust 150 outperformed it?
Erich:
I wonder if all warheads were HEAT?
Did you see that guy in Black Hawk Down with an RPG in his chest? - Ouch!
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Completely WRONG, the shaped charge in the panzerfaust 60 was 150mm diameter compared with the 88 mm diameter in the Schreck.
The armor penetration of the Tank-terror was 100 mm, the Tank-fist pìerce 190-200mm of homogeneous armor.
- Thread starter
- #66
Erich
the old Sage
CB it depended on the attacking angle and of course range. Basically with a PzSchreck you could not miss, a Pzfaust on the other hand, no pun here but it was seen unless a direct shot flat out the fist head could actually deflect off of turret armor. the idea of developing further the fist cartridge to be of more pointed design. 
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Maybe but I was talking about the absolute penetration capability in disregard of the aiming, off couse the flatter trayectory of the RPzB 54 make it easy to aim and fire, aniway I think that the advantages of the Schreck did not compensated his bulkier and heavier layout.
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
I'm absolutely, positively certain the 'Shreck could penetrate 200m of armour. The Bazooka could only achieve 100m - that is why the Americans copied it.
The early FaustPatrone's were near useless against sloped armour, but some or all 'Faust 60's solved this problem IIRC.
Anyway, the 'Fausts later than the '60 definately solved this problem.
I know the 'Shreck could suffer deflection too.
My uncles tank was hit by a 'Faust and he survived.
A similar tank to his was KO'd by a 'Shreck.
The early FaustPatrone's were near useless against sloped armour, but some or all 'Faust 60's solved this problem IIRC.
Anyway, the 'Fausts later than the '60 definately solved this problem.
I know the 'Shreck could suffer deflection too.
My uncles tank was hit by a 'Faust and he survived.
A similar tank to his was KO'd by a 'Shreck.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
the Shreck i reusable right? the faust is kinda like a LAW, drop it after use
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
That's more or less it loomaluftwaffe.
Later 'Fausts could be reloaded though.
The 'Fausts also had a more dangerous (to the operator) backblast.
Later 'Fausts could be reloaded though.
The 'Fausts also had a more dangerous (to the operator) backblast.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
then whats so practical about Shrek?
- Thread starter
- #72
Erich
the old Sage
Range and accuracy, never heard of a schreck round ever bouncing off Soviet or Western turret or glacis armor, that is not correct. I have the knowledge from someone whom was Waffenmeister in the 1st Infantrie Div. who's unit laid ambush to many Soviet T-34's and JS's in the marsh/tree lines of Ost Preussia using a variety of AT weaponry, especially Faust and Schrek's.
the Faust in every Landsers hands was a deadly weapon but only at close range and the Schrek teams were in two's laying in ambush with prepared and not so prepared positions and would allow the T-34's to come within the 100 yard range, usually hit from the sides either turret or decking and even over the support wheels-tracks. No Soviet armor could withstand the 8.8cm hits according to Helmuth R.
you can imagine during the smoke of battle the men operating the Schreck 54's had to be on their toes and soon as a rocket was bonre had to try and leave their positions due to Soviet retribution this is case in open type country or within the burbs of Prussian village's.
the Faust in every Landsers hands was a deadly weapon but only at close range and the Schrek teams were in two's laying in ambush with prepared and not so prepared positions and would allow the T-34's to come within the 100 yard range, usually hit from the sides either turret or decking and even over the support wheels-tracks. No Soviet armor could withstand the 8.8cm hits according to Helmuth R.
you can imagine during the smoke of battle the men operating the Schreck 54's had to be on their toes and soon as a rocket was bonre had to try and leave their positions due to Soviet retribution this is case in open type country or within the burbs of Prussian village's.
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Schwarzpanzer.....what is your source for the 200 mm penetration of the 88 warhead...
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
No answer...? No kidding , in no place said that the panzerschreck could penetrate 200 mm of armor....simple phisics.
SpzB 41 in SD.Kfz 221.
SpzB 41 in SD.Kfz 221.
loomaluftwaffe
Tech Sergeant
- 1,840
- Dec 20, 2005
were those things actually effective?
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
What things....? the SpzB 41 ?... it was effective against 45 mm of armor at close ranges.
MacArther
Staff Sergeant
"I'm absolutely, positively certain the 'Shreck could penetrate 200m of armour. The Bazooka could only achieve 100m - that is why the Americans copied it"
I know where you might get this from. By any chance did you take this figure from Call Of Duty: Big Red One? I ask because there is information on weapons in the game, and there are a few bad mistakes on a few weapons (i.e. panzerfaust was an explosive that penetrated 44mm of verticle armor plate!) and the Panzershrek is listed as having an armor penetration rate of 200mm. A side note, the game shows Stuarts knocking out a Tiger's frontal armor from a ways away!!
I know where you might get this from. By any chance did you take this figure from Call Of Duty: Big Red One? I ask because there is information on weapons in the game, and there are a few bad mistakes on a few weapons (i.e. panzerfaust was an explosive that penetrated 44mm of verticle armor plate!) and the Panzershrek is listed as having an armor penetration rate of 200mm. A side note, the game shows Stuarts knocking out a Tiger's frontal armor from a ways away!!
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Tellermine, HHL 3 hollow charge, and other explosive anti-tank devices in action.
Is a propaganda video but interesting as well.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7SixS9PAw
Is a propaganda video but interesting as well.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7SixS9PAw
I am not really big on anti tank weapons and what not, my knowledge in that area is very limited but if I am mistaken isn't the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck the 2 deffinitive anti tank weapons of WW2.
schwarzpanzer
Senior Airman
- 662
- Aug 8, 2005
I'd probably say the Bazooka was DerAdler.
Interestingly, the 'Faust 3 is similar in principle to the PIAT.
The USSR based the RPG on the 'Faust, but has features of the Bazooka (exposed grenade, reloadable respectively).
The M136 (I guess what you 'have'?) is kinda the reverse of the RPG, borrowing the opposite features of the Bazooka/Faust (tube, 1 shot respectively).
Confusing isn't it?
The less dangerous backblast.
Hi CharlesBronson,
After a bit of research, it seems that the penetration of the 'Shreck was apparently 160mm of angled armour.
I could have sworn blind it was 200mm though... sorry!
Nope,never played it. The super-bazooka used in the Korean war was an answer to the T34's encountered there. The 2.36in WW2 Bazookas proved ineffective against them, the answer was to take design keys from the 'Shreck.
The penetration power was apparently doubled, perhaps that's where I got the 200mm figure from...(though I'm sure it was the 'Shreck).
Thanks anyway MacArther.
Interestingly, the 'Faust 3 is similar in principle to the PIAT.
The USSR based the RPG on the 'Faust, but has features of the Bazooka (exposed grenade, reloadable respectively).
The M136 (I guess what you 'have'?) is kinda the reverse of the RPG, borrowing the opposite features of the Bazooka/Faust (tube, 1 shot respectively).
Confusing isn't it?
loomaluftwaffe said:
The less dangerous backblast.
Hi CharlesBronson,
After a bit of research, it seems that the penetration of the 'Shreck was apparently 160mm of angled armour.
I could have sworn blind it was 200mm though...
sorry! MacArthur said:
Nope,never played it. The super-bazooka used in the Korean war was an answer to the T34's encountered there. The 2.36in WW2 Bazookas proved ineffective against them, the answer was to take design keys from the 'Shreck.
The penetration power was apparently doubled, perhaps that's where I got the 200mm figure from...(though I'm sure it was the 'Shreck).
Thanks anyway MacArther.
