Aviation myths that will not die

Capt. Vick said:

A little late, but here is my Harrison Ford story. I was on a train from New York to Florida shortly after 9/11 and ate breakfast with an aircraft mechanic. He said, based on first hand knowledge or he heard from someone who flew with the actor, that he wouldn't be surprised if the guy crashed and killed himself AND that he was not that good at navigating. Well, it looks like time has proven him wrong...so far.

Click to expand...

As a mechanic and pilot, I take third hand information in a grain of salt. Unless that mechanic knew specifics, he's nothing more than a BSer. From what I've heard, Harrison Ford is said to be a good pilot and his actions during the engine failure he encountered on his PT-22 more than verifies this.

FLYBOYJ said:

...Harrison Ford is said to be a good pilot and his actions during the engine failure he encountered on his PT-22 more than verifies this.

Click to expand...

Yes, that was a nasty situation and he did an amazing job of putting it down and walking away.

GrauGeist said:

Yes, that was a nasty situation and he did an amazing job of putting it down and walking away.

Click to expand...

Agreed, although the walking part might be a bit of a stretch... Still as I understand it his injuries were painful but not life threatening.

When I posted mentioning Harrison Ford, I was thinking about wanting to pilot a Millennium Falcon. (ala Hollywood)

I wasn't trying to throw shade on any real/imagined pilot ability/inability.

Me neither. Just adding what I heard to the conversation. Honestly I rarely, if ever, even think about him.

stona said:

The problem is that the director saying that makes no difference to the perception of the film by the huge majority of the audience, and putting a brief on screen 'disclaimer' at the end (or was it the beginning) does nothing to help.

A good war film should be first and foremost a good film, U-571 does not fall into this category for me. It is an extremely silly film, even if nobody had ever captured a German code machine.

<<<snip>>>

And

"At the time of its release, Tony Blair condemned U-571 in parliament as an insult to the Royal Navy. A far more entertaining response would have been for Britain to fund a big-budget revenge epic, in which a small platoon of foppish yet plucky Brits swans over to Vietnam in 1968, defeats the Viet Cong, and wins the war. Moreover, it would be nearly as accurate as this."

Finally.

"The director actually has the audacity to end on a title card dedicating his film to the memory of the real sailors who captured Enigma machines. Yes, that same memory he has just desecrated. This is exactly the most tasteless gesture the film-makers could have made."

In any case the disquiet over U-571 pales into significance when compared to the furore over 'Objective Burma' when it was released, then withdrawn, on this side of the pond.

Click to expand...

I always took the movie U-571 as a Hollywood mish-mash based on several captures of submarines, with a large dose of "never let fact get in the way of a good story". But I thought it leaned more on the US capture of U-505 rather than a British capture.

T!

Maybe, but that wasn't until June 1944!
At least the US was in the war by then, unlike when U 110 was forced to the surface in May 1941

Capt. Vick said:

Me neither. Just adding what I heard to the conversation. Honestly I rarely, if ever, even think about him.

Click to expand...

I think if I was trying to use a snarky celebrity connection, I would have said John Denver... although, his was not entirely his fault either as I understand it (it was an experimental plane with oddly placed stuff and Mr. Denver was not entirely familiar IIRC). Still....

I can say this about Harrison Ford as a pilot. He is friendly, great with the young eagles kids, and flies smoothly. His takeoffs and landings are arrow straight, and he has no trouble starting up a radial without any fuss. He hasn't gotten lost in all the years he's been flying, even up in Idaho flying the backcountry, or had an incident until his engine faiure in Santa Monica.

Engines fail occasionally. Steve Hinton and son Steve-O have had engine failures, even in non-racing warbirds and down to planes as unlikely to fail as a Luscombe Silvaire.

If we fly, we all start sometime, and nobody is all that good right when they get their license. If you look at pilot skills at 150 hours and again at 1,000 hours, you'll see a marked difference. I bet Harrison is no different, and is a much better pilot today than when he got his license. It's tough to continue flying without learning as you fly. If he ever asks, which I seriously doubt, I'd fly with him.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

3. The Germans called the P-38 the Fork Tailed Devil.

Click to expand...

Franz Stigler did refer to P-38s as fork tailed devils in his memoirs

Kai Stemm said:

Franz Stigler did refer to P-38s as fork tailed devils in his memoirs

Click to expand...

His memoirs were written after the war.

The myth is that Germans (or Japanese, depending on who's telling the story) called it a "fork tail devil" during the war, which is not the case.

The Germans usually referred to American fighters by the their name: Mustang, Lightning, Thunderbolt, etc.

GrauGeist said:

His memoirs were written after the war.

The myth is that Germans (or Japanese, depending on who's telling the story) called it a "fork tail devil" during the war, which is not the case.

The Germans usually referred to American fighters by the their name: Mustang, Lightning, Thunderbolt, etc.

Click to expand...

I see yes although some nick names were given to help remember types but I can't see naming bogey planes such mean sounding names

With regard to post #450 above, the premise of Hollywood entertainment is suspension of disbelief. You are supposed to forget you are watching a movie and "get into" the story. Anyone intelligent enough to know that also should know to "reset" when the movie is over.

Right at the end of U-571 it is clearly stated that the enigma was captured by the British from U-110 in May 1941, more codes in 1942 also by the British, and that the US captured U-505 in 1944, also with an Enigma machine and codes.

There was an entire radio audience that rioted and got panicked because they broadcast H. G. Wells' "War of the Worlds" narrated by Orson Welles. In the light of reason, they were simply stupid. The fact that it was a play was broadcast many times during the performance, but nobody listened. If anyone is dumb enough to think U-571 was an attempt at a documentary, they are as gullible as the war of the Worlds crowd was. I don't think the radio station was guilty of anything at all. The crowd was just silly and unable to recognize it.

Bitching about the cast is just plain old backseat driving. When you pony up several million dollars to become executive producer of a movie, you get to pick the cast. Jon Bon Jovi didn't do badly at all considering he isn't a professional actor. I hope you can someday go see a movie you like, and take it as an entertainment, the way it was intended. Unfortunately, I've heard people all too often coming out of a movie saying things like, "I didn't that was the way it happened," or "Why did (take your pick) want to kill him?" or some other such dumb question. The only real answer is, "Because it's in the script that way, that's why!"

If the British were offended by a war movie, then they are just being as silly as the radio audience in 1938. Perhaps they think the old movie "The Robe" was an accurate portrayal of the times when Jesus Christ was persecuted. I wonder where they think accurate recordings of dialogue from 2,000+ years ago might come from? Perhaps Jesus and the Apostles had a recording secretary in attendance who saved everything for posterity?

Too many people today take offense over nothing and misunderstand the simplest things. I may be many things, but politically-correct isn't one of them. Neither am I gullible enough to buy into thinking any Hollywood movie has any accuracy about it. Real life usually isn't a good drama, and boring life tales don't sell movies. I suppose we should all be angry at the British for coming up with James Bond movies, but I always chose to be entertained instead. Lately the wattered-down Bond stores aren't nearly so entertining now that they have to take into account everyone's delicate feelings.

I am under the impression that most posters in here know something more than usual about WWII history, and I don't think I am wrong in that belief. To a man and woman, the regular posters in here should have known it was a fictional account almost right from the start.

GrauGeist said:

His memoirs were written after the war.

The myth is that Germans (or Japanese, depending on who's telling the story) called it a "fork tail devil" during the war, which is not the case.

The Germans usually referred to American fighters by the their name: Mustang, Lightning, Thunderbolt, etc.

Click to expand...

Exactly, and thank you for answering...

U-571 is a fictional account, but loosely (very loosely) based on real events for which on this side of the pond the Americans are perceived as taking credit for something someone else did. This not new, and it must be understood in this context. It's why 'Objective Burma' caused such offence all those years ago and why U-571 caused such offence relatively recently, as the Guardian review makes clear.
It doesn't surprise me that Hollywood, in fact Americans in general, don't get this. It's why they make films like this in the first place.

I do like the idea of a bunch of foppish but brave English lads defeating the Vietnamese nationalists, but that maybe a step too far. We could make them stereotypical rough hewn Aussies and at least claim to be based in historical fact. The stretch would then be that at least in WW2 the Allies did indeed capture enigma machines and code books, and even defeated Nazi Germany.

Cheers

Steve

GregP said:

There was an entire radio audience that rioted and got panicked because they broadcast H. G. Wells' "War of the Worlds" narrated by Orson Welles. In the light of reason, they were simply stupid. The fact that it was a play was broadcast many times during the performance, but nobody listened. If anyone is dumb enough to think U-571 was an attempt at a documentary, they are as gullible as the war of the Worlds crowd was. I don't think the radio station was guilty of anything at all. The crowd was just silly and unable to recognize it.
t.

Click to expand...

The War of the World's riot is the biggest myth going. It never happened no one rioted no one got in the car to make a run for it and hardly anyone heard the broadcast. The company that collected audience data used to ring 5000 people to ask what they were listening to and the War broadcast barely registered, possibly the as few as 20,000 people listened the broadcast. Orson Welles started the myth for publicity his company was about to lose its contract and after the fuss he got what he wanted a new contract.

U-571 is a horrible movie for anyone with at least basic knowledge of WW2 military history. Mixed with average/poor acting/script.

Denniss said:

U-571 is a horrible movie for anyone with at least basic knowledge of WW2 military history. Mixed with average/poor acting/script.

Click to expand...

Isn't "horrible movie" a bit redundant when the subject matter is military history? The last one I saw -any movie- was Memphis Belle. Maybe with ear plugs to see the hardware.

Memphis Belle sported at least good acting and a nice story.