Tony Hill
Tech Sergeant
Great stuff!!! CG stuff is a mystery to me, I admire people who can harness it.
Avro Lancaster Dambuster - CG Model
- Thread starter peter_f
- Start date
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
You're welcome Peter.
View attachment 139864FANTASTIC WORK! Request permission to use your works for my model? I still have to complete the rear turret.
I have following opinion on the Type 464 Provisioning Lancasters;
1) front spotlight is correct, as shown in some of the pics recently published. The covering of the front spotlight was probably in a color other than Night, or just unpainted.
2) rear spotlight is fitted 20ft rear from the front spotligt, and on the A/C centerline. Actually it is buried on the flat part of the covering of the bomb bay ceiling.
3) bomb aimer's dome is "bubble" type same with the later ones.
4) a machine gun which had previously been installed on the ventral position for firing through the opening as per the original conversion program, is believed to be removed on the mission.
5) according to several sources, the mid-upper turret was removed after the aircraft were delivered to RAF Scampton, and the gap was covered on the spot and applied with camofulage paints which is visible, as on some of the photographs.
6) the small windows on the fuselage are believed to be blacked out from the backsides with dark colored material.
7) there is a bomb release mechanism and covering plates installed on the bomb bay ceiling directly above the bomb/mine, as shown on a German investigating paper.
8) some of the Upkeep bomb/mine were in red oxide paint, as evidenced by a German investigating papers.
9) whether the center perspex cover on the rear turrets were removed on the mission remains uncertain.
10) I presume the Dam Busting Lancs were all brand new machines (this needs confirmation), therefore very minor "weathering" or wearly looking occured on them. This is just my speculation.
11) ..and cable cutters on the wing leading edges were sealed with light-colored material for reducing the drag, at least on Gibson's aircraft.
I have following opinion on the Type 464 Provisioning Lancasters;
1) front spotlight is correct, as shown in some of the pics recently published. The covering of the front spotlight was probably in a color other than Night, or just unpainted.
2) rear spotlight is fitted 20ft rear from the front spotligt, and on the A/C centerline. Actually it is buried on the flat part of the covering of the bomb bay ceiling.
3) bomb aimer's dome is "bubble" type same with the later ones.
4) a machine gun which had previously been installed on the ventral position for firing through the opening as per the original conversion program, is believed to be removed on the mission.
5) according to several sources, the mid-upper turret was removed after the aircraft were delivered to RAF Scampton, and the gap was covered on the spot and applied with camofulage paints which is visible, as on some of the photographs.
6) the small windows on the fuselage are believed to be blacked out from the backsides with dark colored material.
7) there is a bomb release mechanism and covering plates installed on the bomb bay ceiling directly above the bomb/mine, as shown on a German investigating paper.
8) some of the Upkeep bomb/mine were in red oxide paint, as evidenced by a German investigating papers.
9) whether the center perspex cover on the rear turrets were removed on the mission remains uncertain.
10) I presume the Dam Busting Lancs were all brand new machines (this needs confirmation), therefore very minor "weathering" or wearly looking occured on them. This is just my speculation.
11) ..and cable cutters on the wing leading edges were sealed with light-colored material for reducing the drag, at least on Gibson's aircraft.
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Thorlifter
Captain
I'll join with the others in stating the obvious.
IMCREDIBLE!!!!! I wish I know how you guys (you and Clave) do this kind of modeling and rendering. Just amazing. Of course, I could do nothing with that knowledge as I don't even have time to sneeze anymore.....
IMCREDIBLE!!!!! I wish I know how you guys (you and Clave) do this kind of modeling and rendering. Just amazing. Of course, I could do nothing with that knowledge as I don't even have time to sneeze anymore.....
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Good stuff Popsie. The aircraft were new, modified on the production line. The mid-upper turrets were not installed, or were removed, at the factory during modification, not on the Squadron. The aircraft used later for the Tallboy bombs had the turrets removed in the field, and the opening plated over and priomed, or quickly painted, and this is evident in photographs.
All of the Lancasters on the operation had the ventral gun removed, except one, which was McArthy's, ED825/G. This was because the aircraft was a last - minute replacement due to his own aircraft having a problem.
Note that the Lanc in the photos in the above post appears to be the one used for the trials at Reculver, and not neccessarily ED932/G, AJ-G, flown by Gibson on the raid.
All of the Lancasters on the operation had the ventral gun removed, except one, which was McArthy's, ED825/G. This was because the aircraft was a last - minute replacement due to his own aircraft having a problem.
Note that the Lanc in the photos in the above post appears to be the one used for the trials at Reculver, and not neccessarily ED932/G, AJ-G, flown by Gibson on the raid.
- Thread starter
- #26
Thank You Darryl, Terry, Thorlifter and ppopsie!
ppopsie: What a great quality photographs! Now see clearly my mistake with rounded "bomb bay". I will improve all for sure. And thank You so much for Your corrections and comments. They are extremely helpful!
As for rear turret - be my quest although I can not assure You they are 100% true with reality. When modeling turrets I was studying tons of photos and drawings, but at the end I decided not to modeling parts that will be invisible on my images. The model is "heavy" even without them. If You need some photos or drawings I will send You the package with photos I collected.
Thorlifter: As for modeling I can just say it is very time consuming process. This lanc took me 10 months to be completed. But for me and I pressume for everyone here the process of building, painting and creating scenes gives a lot of fun.
Below some renders that will allow You to understand my approach when building the model. The complexity of the model is depended on the shots I am going to show. Now with dambusters I would like to show very close shots.
Details:
Details:
and details:
ppopsie: What a great quality photographs! Now see clearly my mistake with rounded "bomb bay". I will improve all for sure. And thank You so much for Your corrections and comments. They are extremely helpful!
As for rear turret - be my quest although I can not assure You they are 100% true with reality. When modeling turrets I was studying tons of photos and drawings, but at the end I decided not to modeling parts that will be invisible on my images. The model is "heavy" even without them. If You need some photos or drawings I will send You the package with photos I collected.
Thorlifter: As for modeling I can just say it is very time consuming process. This lanc took me 10 months to be completed. But for me and I pressume for everyone here the process of building, painting and creating scenes gives a lot of fun.
Below some renders that will allow You to understand my approach when building the model. The complexity of the model is depended on the shots I am going to show. Now with dambusters I would like to show very close shots.
Details:
Details:
and details:
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Excellent work! I particularly like the use of light and reflection. As a 'traditional' aviation artist, working in oils on canvas, I have mixed feelings about some CG art, but I have to say your work is superb.
Hello peter_F
The work of yours are beyond everything I have seen in the past. An amazing virtural modeling. There is something to think about my poor and unfinished 3d model.
Airframes-sama,
Thanks for corrections and assistance. McCarthy's ED825 must have the ventral gun and that makes sense. I have compared the one of cine-camera shots and front view of the Gibson's ship published after the operation about the pattern and shape of white-colored square around the cable cutters on the leading edges of the inner wings. But I couldn't conclude these are the same or not.
Here is a question of mine; did the wireless operators use trailing antenna while he send any of the coded messages while in attack? Is there any wireless expert?
The work of yours are beyond everything I have seen in the past. An amazing virtural modeling. There is something to think about my poor and unfinished 3d model.
Airframes-sama,
Thanks for corrections and assistance. McCarthy's ED825 must have the ventral gun and that makes sense. I have compared the one of cine-camera shots and front view of the Gibson's ship published after the operation about the pattern and shape of white-colored square around the cable cutters on the leading edges of the inner wings. But I couldn't conclude these are the same or not.
Here is a question of mine; did the wireless operators use trailing antenna while he send any of the coded messages while in attack? Is there any wireless expert?
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
The trailing aerial wire is something I have wondered about, due to the low altitude. Not so much regarding any hazard, but the effects of 'ground masking' of the signals. However, a number of years ago, I asked a Lancaster WOP/AG (not 617 Sqn), and he said yes, it would probably have been used, although not fully extended, as they'd need the extra antenna length due to the range required.
This makes sense; I was a (ground) signaller in the Airborne at one time, and often used only part of the 20 foot Remote Ground Station antenna, in place of the normal antenna, in order to boost a signal, depending on atmospheric conditions.
This makes sense; I was a (ground) signaller in the Airborne at one time, and often used only part of the 20 foot Remote Ground Station antenna, in place of the normal antenna, in order to boost a signal, depending on atmospheric conditions.
Am still overwhelmed by the art.
Thanks for the info about the wireless. I re-thought about the use of wireless during the attack but just one message was needed to be sent out from the each aircraft, after dropping the bomb and confirming the result. It however needed to consider when and what messages sent out from the Dambusting Lancs particularly the CO's ship if one is to build a diorama or two.
Other points for the Dambuster Lancasters;
1) the internal framework in the front turret and the bomb aimer's blister were in lighter color and not in RAF Night, at least in ED825 flown by Joe McCarthy. It's presumably in Grey Green but I don't know about the rear turret.
2) also the arm like supports normally fixed on the both sides and inside of the bomb aimer's bubble are missing on the aircraft on the cine-camera shot listed above.
3) an airspeed indicator was added above the instrument panel and in front of the pilot's eyes. This information is from Bill Sweetman's "Dambusters Raid" in text form only.
4) one or two VHF antenna were added (where?) and the Gee antenna retained. I believe no Monica anntena were on the aircraft but at least one is recognizable on AJ-C that was photographed.
5) the tailwheel tire is in ordinaly shape and not a grooved one, at least with Gibson's Lanc as published and the one on the cine-camera frame.
Thanks for the info about the wireless. I re-thought about the use of wireless during the attack but just one message was needed to be sent out from the each aircraft, after dropping the bomb and confirming the result. It however needed to consider when and what messages sent out from the Dambusting Lancs particularly the CO's ship if one is to build a diorama or two.
Other points for the Dambuster Lancasters;
1) the internal framework in the front turret and the bomb aimer's blister were in lighter color and not in RAF Night, at least in ED825 flown by Joe McCarthy. It's presumably in Grey Green but I don't know about the rear turret.
2) also the arm like supports normally fixed on the both sides and inside of the bomb aimer's bubble are missing on the aircraft on the cine-camera shot listed above.
3) an airspeed indicator was added above the instrument panel and in front of the pilot's eyes. This information is from Bill Sweetman's "Dambusters Raid" in text form only.
4) one or two VHF antenna were added (where?) and the Gee antenna retained. I believe no Monica anntena were on the aircraft but at least one is recognizable on AJ-C that was photographed.
5) the tailwheel tire is in ordinaly shape and not a grooved one, at least with Gibson's Lanc as published and the one on the cine-camera frame.
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Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Wow! Just wow! That is just mindblowingly beautiful work! 
Super work mate ! 
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Hi Airframes, Thank you very much for the information!
If you are interested, here is a link to the built-thread on RCGroups: Avro Lancaster BIII (Special) - RC Groups
Greets,
Marco
If you are interested, here is a link to the built-thread on RCGroups: Avro Lancaster BIII (Special) - RC Groups
Greets,
Marco
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
You're welcome, and thanks for the link. It's looking good so far, and I hope to see it flying sometime, maybe at Cosford or Southport(?).
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