B-25 weapons thread

[Greg Boeser]

Interesting stuff. This really points out the difference between the B-25 bomb bay and the B-26 bomb bay. The B-25 had an open plan bay which allowed the fuel tank to be mounted to the top of the bay, which left more room for bombs, the B-26 bomb bay with vertical racks were hampered by the 250 gallon bomb bay tank installation which filled the left side racks of the bay, reducing the capacity of the bay by half. The B-26 could only carry three 500 lb. bombs, or two 1000 lb. bombs, or one 2000 lb. or 1600 lb. bomb, when so equipped.

 

[Micdrow]

Interesting document, especially where it says that if the bomb racks are removed they need to be reinstalled before flight as they are part of the strength of the structure.

 

[chuter]

I found this interesting as well in NEI acceptance document of B-25's. Something you would never find in pictures for the aircraft engines. Out of 20 aircraft received only two have the different engines. Not sure why.

View attachment 537433

Actually, that's saying that the aircraft arrived with either the -13 or -29 motors and, more significantly, that two aircraft have one of each.

Unrelated:
Something I frequently notice whenever Pacific, especially Air Apache, B-25 pictures are posted, is the missing spring loaded nose gear strut door* on the nose wheel well door**. Post #135 includes a picture of a B-25 with the door installed and Post #123 shows the door removed. If one looks through "Warpath Across the Pacific" finding this door installed on a gun nose B-25 is harder than finding sidepacks with an eight-gun nose. Tondelayo had the door removed but when it was "demilitarized" and renamed Chow Hound the door was re-installed. I've talked to a lot of operators and museums about why this may have been done and the response is always "gosh, never noticed that before" and "I have no idea".


*This door allowed the nose wheel well door to close when the nose gear was down.
**The 345th did this as a rule, the 38th quite a bit but there are exceptions and the 5th had a few aircraft so modified.

 

[Aaron Brooks Wolters]

I found this interesting as well in NEI acceptance document of B-25's. Something you would never find in pictures for the aircraft engines. Out of 20 aircraft received only two have the different engines. Not sure why.

View attachment 537433

Two different engines on the same aircraft. That should have really caused some headaches with the ground crew until they got use to it.

 

[GreenKnight121]

An unusual tail on this B-25 in that it only has one 50 caliber machine gun instead of the usual two.

View attachment 286736

This might help you:

 

[Micdrow]

Actually, that's saying that the aircraft arrived with either the -13 or -29 motors and, more significantly, that two aircraft have one of each.

Unrelated:
Something I frequently notice whenever Pacific, especially Air Apache, B-25 pictures are posted, is the missing spring loaded nose gear strut door* on the nose wheel well door**. Post #135 includes a picture of a B-25 with the door installed and Post #123 shows the door removed. If one looks through "Warpath Across the Pacific" finding this door installed on a gun nose B-25 is harder than finding sidepacks with an eight-gun nose. Tondelayo had the door removed but when it was "demilitarized" and renamed Chow Hound the door was re-installed. I've talked to a lot of operators and museums about why this may have been done and the response is always "gosh, never noticed that before" and "I have no idea".


*This door allowed the nose wheel well door to close when the nose gear was down.
**The 345th did this as a rule, the 38th quite a bit but there are exceptions and the 5th had a few aircraft so modified.

I might actually have an answer to you for the nose door. At Work right now but seem to remember in a document I found they where talking about modifications to the nose door. I will see if I can find it again when I get home.

 

[Micdrow]

Here you go Chuter, the document I was thinking about on landing gear door. Not sure if it answers your question but what I was thinking of.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Another thing that rarely gets mentioned is that many B-25Cs and Ds continued to mount .30 caliber waist guns.

 

[varsity07840]

The .30 cal waist guns were a field mod in the Pacific. Some B-25C/Ds had field mod .50 cal waist guns and late D model hybrids had J type waist guns and a single .50tail gin. The combinations on B-25s are endless.

 

[Micdrow]

Found this in a B-25J manual, Interesting as it did not say how the tanks got into the aircraft and well does not look like they can be jettisoned if combat arose. Maybe brought through waste gunner windows?

 

[Micdrow]

Found this picture on the web some months ago. Looks like a crude modification for a tail stinger. Possibly a 30 cal mount.

 

[Shortround6]

I think those tanks would not be used in combat. Useful for getting from one island base to another or from Australia to forward base.

Gun (?) in tail cone is either a fake (not photo, some B-25s were known to mount a fake gun in the tail cone) or has very limited traverse/elevation and might even be fixed and/or remote fired?

 

[Micdrow]

I think those tanks would not be used in combat. Useful for getting from one island base to another or from Australia to forward base.

Gun (?) in tail cone is either a fake (not photo, some B-25s were known to mount a fake gun in the tail cone) or has very limited traverse/elevation and might even be fixed and/or remote fired?

Agree on the tanks in waste gunner position. Even the pappy gun modification tanks used in that area where dropped well before combat began.

Could be fake gun or real, I have another photo around here some where you can clearly see the gun cut through the tail cone. Here is one where they removed the tail cone and mounted a gun. So many modifications in the Pacific and still new pictures surfacing on the subject every day.

 

[GrauGeist]

Paul, I do recall reading that the early production B-25 (B-25/B-25A) had provisions for a fixed single .50 "stinger" in the tail, but only a couple dozen of these were produced before the upgraded B-25B/Mitchell Mk.I was introduced.

There were several aircraft types equipped with a "Stinger" option, like the He111, etc.

 

[Shortround6]

In the case of this photo, while the cone of fire is restricted by the ability of the gunner to move the gun behind the pivot point, there is no plexiglass cone/dome further restricting movement.

Even if it was a .30 cal gun the pivot point would be 1 1/2-2 feet inside the tail cone from the opening which would mean a very restricted area of fire.

It may very well be a "stinger" as Graugeist suggests. Some A-20s were being fitted for (but not actually equipped with?) fixed .30s in the back of the engine nacelles for a similar purpose at this time.

 

[Micdrow]

Paul, I do recall reading that the early production B-25 (B-25/B-25A) had provisions for a fixed single .50 "stinger" in the tail, but only a couple dozen of these were produced before the upgraded B-25B/Mitchell Mk.I was introduced.

There were several aircraft types equipped with a "Stinger" option, like the He111, etc.

In the case of this photo, while the cone of fire is restricted by the ability of the gunner to move the gun behind the pivot point, there is no plexiglass cone/dome further restricting movement.

Even if it was a .30 cal gun the pivot point would be 1 1/2-2 feet inside the tail cone from the opening which would mean a very restricted area of fire.

It may very well be a "stinger" as Graugeist suggests. Some A-20s were being fitted for (but not actually equipped with?) fixed .30s in the back of the engine nacelles for a similar purpose at this time.

Very cool guys, I did not know that version and thanks guys, very interesting. What I love about this site is you always learn something new.

 

[Donivanp]

Well Dang Paul, I just came across this tread, some very interesting things in here. I've read the saga of Pappy Gunn and found it very interesting. The SW pacific theater of operations was an exceptionally gruelling envornment to operate in and guys like LtCol Gunn shade tree modification to get the job done really through NA's engineering department in to a tizzy at times. But they learned and made factory modes to keep up with the war. The Mitchell lived up to the namesake it was name for. Great nfo from all and a big thanks to Paul for starting and carrying this thread forward.

 

[Micdrow]

Well Dang Paul, I just came across this tread, some very interesting things in here. I've read the saga of Pappy Gunn and found it very interesting. The SW pacific theater of operations was an exceptionally gruelling envornment to operate in and guys like LtCol Gunn shade tree modification to get the job done really through NA's engineering department in to a tizzy at times. But they learned and made factory modes to keep up with the war. The Mitchell lived up to the namesake it was name for. Great nfo from all and a big thanks to Paul for starting and carrying this thread forward.

Thanks Don, your too kind, just trying to figure out some of the modifications. Just wish I was good a piecing all the parts together and glad for the assistance of others on the web site. If your looking for anther good book to read I recommend this one if you have not already read it. I really enjoyed it. I will keep plugging away at this as I get time.

 

[Micdrow]

I know a lot of people thought the 20mm cannon was a one or two off, I posted 2 already, Johnny pom pom and Bat's Jr but here are a few more I have found since then.

 

[Micdrow]

Another one