B-25 weapons thread (2 Viewers)

[Micdrow]

Great find, started reading through those documents as well but didn't get as far as you did. Interesting on the 8 fixed plus 4. Guessing a typo as I have never found that configuration on a G model as well.

 

[CATCH 22]

Great find, started reading through those documents as well but didn't get as far as you did. Interesting on the 8 fixed plus 4. Guessing a typo as I have never found that configuration on a G model as well.

Those are really very interesting documents, written by a skilled person. I've been through hundreds of war diaries and most of them are very "dry" - missions, people, awards etc. Some are real gems with detailed descriptions of almost everything. You can compare the 823-rd with the 822-nd history for example.

By the way is it possible for the moderator to move the last few posts to the thread about B-25 weapons?

I did some "digging" the last night and found something very interesting:
1. In the 823-rd diary for February 1944 1944-02 Pt 1 on pages 1 and 2 of the Narrative (pages 11 and 12 of the pdf-document) one can find that the 75-cannons were not found very useful during ground strafing and finally substituted with 0.50 guns during that month.
2. On 14. Febr. 1944 B-25 with s/n 42-64873 (pilot lt. John Di Filippo) was lost due to enemy fire during a bombing raid (see on page 6 of the narrative). I checked the MACR (#4600) and I think I found something very interesting. The type of the a/c is described as B-25G1 - a modified G strafer as per the squadron narratives (in fact it is a B-25G-5 as per the s/n). The list of the installed guns is very interesting - here it is:

1) There are 4 nose + 2 tunnel guns (tunnel guns replace the cannon) as we see them in the photos;
2) There are 2 side (blister) guns!!! - 1 on each side as we see it in the above photos and not 2 on each side or only 2 on one side as seen with other modifications;
3) Turret guns are the standard ones (rear top turret);
4) There are 2 waist guns - I believe these were fired through the rear windows behind the turret and not through waist ports as we know them from other modifications;
5) There are 2 tail guns!!! and not a single one as with the usual modifications;
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Those are really very interesting documents, written by a skilled person. I've been through hundreds of war diaries and most of them are very "dry" - missions, people, awards etc. Some are real gems with detailed descriptions of almost everything. You can compare the 823-rd with the 822-nd history for example.

By the way is it possible for the moderator to move the last few posts to the thread about B-25 weapons?

I did some "digging" the last night and found something very interesting:
1. In the 823-rd diary for February 1944 1944-02 Pt 1 on pages 1 and 2 of the Narrative (pages 11 and 12 of the pdf-document) one can find that the 75-cannons were not found very useful during ground strafing and finally substituted with 0.50 guns during that month.
2. On 14. Febr. 1944 B-25 with s/n 42-64873 (pilot lt. John Di Filippo) was lost due to enemy fire during a bombing raid (see on page 6 of the narrative). I checked the MACR (#4600) and I think I found something very interesting. The type of the a/c is described as B-25G1 - a modified G strafer as per the squadron narratives (in fact it is a B-25G-5 as per the s/n). The list of the installed guns is very interesting - here it is:
View attachment 595646

1) There are 4 nose + 2 tunnel guns (tunnel guns replace the cannon) as we see them in the photos;
2) There are 2 side (blister) guns!!! - 1 on each side as we see it in the above photos and not 2 on each side or only 2 on one side as seen with other modifications;
3) Turret guns are the standard ones (rear top turret);
4) There are 2 waist guns - I believe these were fired through the rear windows behind the turret and not through waist ports as we know them from other modifications;
5) There are 2 tail guns!!! and not a single one as with the usual modifications;
Cheers!

Wow, lot of interesting data there. Very sleepy as I have to go to work tonight. But will have to read this more when head clear. I am not sure if there is an easy way of moving just a few selections to the B-25 thread but I have Friday off and can see about copying the last few threads and pictures over to it.

Well done Yves

 

[CATCH 22]

This is a photo of a 823-rd BS. modified B-25G. The nose modification is visible, but the under wing blister gun is in the shadow. Anyway, if we don't see any side (blister) guns under the cockpit area we already know they are (probably) far behind.
And here another photo with 3 822-nd BS. modified B-25Gs: the tail gun (I see a single one) of the front a/c is visible. The waist guns are mounted at the rear (standard) windows, nose guns are as previously described, under wing blister gun is unfortunately not visible.

Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Great stuff Yves!!!

 

[CATCH 22]

Great stuff Yves!!!

Thank you!
Honestly, I must thank you for bringing some of your information and photos too. I knew about the 38-th BG. modifications since years but I never went that far, checking the Group War Diaries and Narratives. Thankfully the 38-th BG Assossiation have them all ready for download. Basically this is the same research I've done some time ago with the MTO modifications. This reminds me to post those here. I'll do it as soon as I can.
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Thank you!
Honestly, I must thank you for bringing some of your information and photos too. I knew about the 38-th BG. modifications since years but I never went that far, checking the Group War Diaries and Narratives. Thankfully the 38-th BG Assossiation have them all ready for download. Basically this is the same research I've done some time ago with the MTO modifications. This reminds me to post those here. I'll do it as soon as I can.
Cheers!

Your too kind Yves, I love the B-25 too and well wish I had more time to dig into it then I have already. So in my spare time I try to find more things about it. Ive learned allot since starting this thread and keep on learning.

Cant wait to see what you have on the MTO modifications.

All the best

Paul

 

[varsity07840]

Some modified C, D and Gs had twin .30 cal tail guns.

 

[CATCH 22]

Some modified C, D and Gs had twin .30 cal tail guns.

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately the above quoted MACR does not show the .30 guns as such and I didn't check all MACRs for the 38-th BG, but the War Diaries of the 823-rd BS for example 823rd AFHRA Documents always list the type of munition/ordnance used during missions. All of the mission reports give the numbers for .30 ammunition used. I do believe that not only the tail guns but also some waist guns of the above shown modifications (resp. some nose guns as seen in the first photo) were from the smaller calibre.
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Was going through this thread again when I noticed the reinforced skin under the wing of the B-25G model that Yves had posted in thread 258. Never noticed it before till we started talking about blister packs under the wing. Too bad we cant see father back on the picture.

 

[Micdrow]

Thought this was interesting too of a tail of the B-25 Mitchell. Source the web

 

[Micdrow]

Found these on a B-25 web page on Facebook called B-25 Mitchell Bomber Fans. I never seen the poles on the nose of the B-25's below. Location is the Aleutians. Guessing weather instruments or maybe a crude form of night radar or very early version of a sea search radar? Any body have any clues.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Micdrow]

Looks to be this. picture from squadron signal B-25 Mitchell book.

 

[fubar57]

Found this doing a reverse image search on Yves photo. Google calls the images "B-25G Tee Kay". Italeri does a 1:48 B-25G kit and one of the decal options is for Tee Kay.

​

Image isn't clear enough to get the serial number unfortunately

Edit: s/n is 265217

 

[Wurger]

 

[Micdrow]

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately the above quoted MACR does not show the .30 guns as such and I didn't check all MACRs for the 38-th BG, but the War Diaries of the 823-rd BS for example 823rd AFHRA Documents always list the type of munition/ordnance used during missions. All of the mission reports give the numbers for .30 ammunition used. I do believe that not only the tail guns but also some waist guns of the above shown modifications (resp. some nose guns as seen in the first photo) were from the smaller calibre.
Cheers!

Morning Yves,

Found these this morning confirming your statement above. The 38th Bomb Group did fly with a mixture of 30 caliber machine guns. In both the tail and waist gunner position on some aircraft as you can see below in the following MARC reports. Note also that it looks like bottom one had single mounted machine gun blister packs as well.

Link to more on what happened to the aircraft below. Pacific Wrecks - B-25G-5-NA Mitchell Serial Number 42-64835

Fate of the other aircraft below on this link. Bottom source from MARC serial number 42-64810 Pacific Wrecks

 

[CATCH 22]

Morning Yves,
Found these this morning confirming your statement above. The 38th Bomb Group did fly with a mixture of 30 caliber machine guns. In both the tail and waist gunner position on some aircraft as you can see below in the following MARC reports. Note also that it looks like bottom one had single mounted machine gun blister packs as well.

Hi Paul,
I believe both a/cs from the MACRs have single blister guns. They call them in the reports "side guns". I've seen several very similar reports. It's interesting to find that the modifications of the so called G-1 strafers had a few stages: the 2 mods above are different. The first has 6 nose guns and the second still 2, but both have side guns. For example in the photo you posted under #290 the standard nose is still there, but the addition of side guns is evident. I mentioned somewhere earlier that I've seen these single side guns in detail. Unfortunately I couldn't find a better photo so far.
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Hi Paul,
I believe both a/cs from the MACRs have single blister guns. They call them in the reports "side guns". I've seen several very similar reports. It's interesting to find that the modifications of the so called G-1 strafers had a few stages: the 2 mods above are different. The first has 6 nose guns and the second still 2, but both have side guns. For example in the photo you posted under #290 the standard nose is still there, but the addition of side guns is evident. I mentioned somewhere earlier that I've seen these single side guns in detail. Unfortunately I couldn't find a better photo so far.
Cheers!

Agreed Yves,

I have been looking for better pictures as well but so far no luck. I noticed that as well but have to wonder if that's because they still had war shortages and where doing what they could with what they had. I did hit something I did not expect today though. The second picture I have posted before in this thread but the first one I just found today in the 81st A.D.G. 1943 book. I believe the first picture is the same plane before it got the field modifications. Trying to figure out the aircraft serial number but so far no luck.

Still digging though

 

[Micdrow]

Another picture of The Wolf from same book above.