B-25 weapons thread

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This is one of Pappy Gunn's mods. I've seen the same configuration before and I believe these are Mitchells from the 3-rd BG. Note the smooth cowlings and flat navigator windows behind the cockpit - early C/D-models. On your first photo the mechanics are just doing the mods seen in the next photo. "The Wolf" has bomb racks too.
Check photos here: https://www.ozatwar.com/usaaf/runtsroost.htm for another modified B-25.
Same one here but obviously some of the guns have been deleted:

B-25D s/n 41-29727, 90-th BS., 3-rd BG.
There is a variation with a 20mm cannon in the fifth position, product of the same mod centre.

P.S. I checked and you have those photos already in the posts starting with #199.
 
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The Golden Bear insignia on the left nose of these aircraft identify them as 73rd Bomb Squadron, 28th Composite Group. 28th Composite Group began to receive B-25s to replace their B-26s beginning in September, 1942. 77th Bomb Squadron began flying offensive missions from Adak in December, 1942. 73rd re-equipped in early February 1943. 406th Bomb Squadron traded their A-29s for B-25s in late February.
 
Micdrow said:
Interesting view of a B-25G showing just the two 50's where the B-25H installed four.

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A long time ago I posted this picture, back in 2015 and still puzzles me to this day as it looks like it only ever had the two inner machine guns installed yet there where what looks to be ammo cans on the two out side. Today was trying to clean up some pictures and move them to different folders as I try to save any picture on the B-25 I have never seen. Low and behold I found these two. Both are different aircraft and both only have the inside 50's installed. The most common I see are the outside 50's installed and how the G model came out. Any one know more about this configuration on why they did it. Guessing maybe to cut back on weight but just a guess. Other wise I would have thought they would have installed all 4 machine guns in the nose.

 
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Micdrow said:
I got go through my pictures more often that I save or at least look at them closer. Guessing I found on web but another aircraft with the single machine gun blister under the wing.
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This is the exact photo I've been mentioning in my previous posts - the first one I saw with under wing blister guns. Coincidentally I found the description of these particular modifications in the magnificent book by Norman Avery "B-25 The Magnificent Medium":

 
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Geo, I wanted to reply to your post earlier but didn't have the exact proof I needed until now (just the gut feeling).
The profile of the B-25G from the 38-th BG. shown here is of a regular (factory) G-model with no modifications. As with many other decals the information about the real a/c hasn't been used precisely. The first detail one might start thinking about is the ventral turret. Almost all B-25 modifications have this turret removed and substituted by waist and/or tail guns. As per the quote I posted in my previous post the ventral turret has been even factory deleted effective on s/n 42-65001. So no chance for 42-65217 to carry one.
Cheers!
 
Hi Paul,
all those are B-25H with removed 2 guns. Even the oldest photo you mention is a H, not a G. In my post # 263, I compared the 4-guns noses of G- and H-models and one can clearly see that they differ. You always see cut-outs for the middle 2 guns in the upper "alligator"-type hood of the H-model.
Explanations for the missing 2 guns (I also believe some of these a/cs had their blister guns removed too) give some of the pilots in their memoirs. I believe this was the book I read these stories:

The a/c with the mask is from the 12-th BG, I believe the shark mouth is from the same BG. In CBI the H-model was used as a bridge- or train- etc. buster. The usual practice was to trace the target with the nose guns and then use the cannon or bomb the target. The 0.5 guns were ineffective against trains. 2 guns were enough for tracing and saved weight as well, as you mention.
Cheers!
 
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Rereading Garrett Middlebrooks book Air Combat at 20 Feet. Interesting enough on page 179 he mentions that he flew a B-25 with 4 machine guns in nose along side a 20mm cannon plus the two blister packs. To bad didn't have a picture of it in the book or a name of the aircraft in his book.
 
If you check your post # 271 you'll see the origins of this modification. The former one was a "Mitchell" from the 321-st BG. modified in the Warner Robins Air Logistic Centre (GA) for the MTO after the first B-25s in North Africa have shown to have weak or improper (belly turret!) defensive armament.
The modification you show above is one of those done at the Sidi-Ahmed Air Base/depot (Bizerte Airfield) in Tunisia, more or less a copy of the Warner Robins' mods but done in field conditions. Note that the Sidi Ahmed mods have smaller waist windows without top bracing. The above one is from the 447-tn BS/321-th BG., Lt. DeMay's crew. If you check the photos of the damaged "Mitchells" from the 340-th BG. after the eruption of Vesuvius (there are some photos in this thread as well) you'll recognise the same modification. It should be a 0.50 cal but it's not impossible that 0.30 has been used as well.



Cheers!
P.S. And for a better comparison here is the Warner Robins modification with the big waist openings with bracing on top and tail gun position with the characteristic bulkhead (AFAIK it's for the ammunition coming from the top):


 
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Thanks Yves, Very informative as always. You should write a book on the modifications of the Mitchell bomber. I know I would buy it
 
Micdrow said:
Thanks Yves, Very informative as always. You should write a book on the modifications of the Mitchell bomber. I know I would buy it
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Oh, you are flattering me!
I'm not much of a writer but I did help some authors with details I know about this or that. I believe there are people who really know a lot more and I'm trying to learn from them.
I already promised to write something about the B-25G modifications in the MTO but I can't find the time for it.
Here is something which in my eyes connects all MTO mods in an absolutely amazing way. I have no real explanation or answer how and where and why was it done. If somebody knows anything, please speak.
Below is a photo of a modified B-25G from (presumably) the 381-st BS./310-th BG. in the MTO. What you clearly see is that the tail gunner position is the same as the previously shown Sidi-Ahmed air base modification.

My first thought was that with the Cs and Ds some Gs have been modified in the same style. But the modified B-25G in the MTO (known as G-12 or interim configuration) already had a tail gunner position with a small canopy. Below a modified B-25Gs from the 310-th BG.:


Maybe on the first photo we see a standard B-25G modified in the MTO and not the other modification (known as G-12)? Could be, but what about this photo:

These are Mitchells from the 310-th BG. The a/c in the middle clearly shows earlier type waist windows (as seen on D2 or G-12 modification resp. on B-25D-30/35) but a Sidi-Ahmed-type tail gunner position?!? Is this a modification of a modification? No serial is visible so it's hard to know what's the type of the plane.
And here is the last one (for today):

Same modifications as before. The serial number 43-3481 reveals that this is a B-25D-30. Ooops! But this block had different tail (as seen on a RAF Mitchell II below):

And blocks -30 and -35 of B-25D have been manufactured much later than the Sidi-Ahmed base/depot modifications.....
This is still a mystery for me but I hope there is a plausible explanation.
Cheers!
 
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Very cool Yves and very interesting. I know how it feels about finding time and you certainly have taught me a lot more then I knew before so I appreciate that. My wife has sever or an aggressive form of MS so besides taking care of her and working full time it can be a chore so I understand about finding time and I am patient so I can wait till you do As for an author you certainly write things up way better than me.

Honestly I haven't done very much digging on the Med Mitchells other than a few photo's here and there. I still have so many questions on the Pacific strafer's that I am trying to figure out. I am hoping Lawrence Hickey finishes his books on the Saga of the Sun Setters and Harvest of the Grim Reapers but have not idea if they will still happen. Hoping there will be more in site on some of the other modifications in the Pacific and either better views or clearer pictures of B-25's that I have not found yet. Time will tell

Again many thanks

Paul
 
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