B-25 weapons thread
- Thread starter Micdrow
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- #342
The 3 cameras in the nose were for the photo-recce version (F-10) only. The standard bombers (J-model incl.) had 1 camera aft of the bomb bay. I believe the one shown in the bulletin is a MTO-mod, not a standard. Maybe the second fixed gun (standard armament for late B-25s) has been removed because of the installed camera.
An interesting war-time documentary called Mission to Rabaul shows B-25 being loaded with bombs, taking off, flying, bombing etc. The whole movie is of interest, but more B-25 to be seen around and after 40:00. All of the birds are modified B-25C/D "commercial strafers" with the 4-gun nose, twin-blister guns and single tail gun, no belly turret, no waist windows. Check the different ordnance:
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- #345
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- #346
Found this photograph on Facebook here. I wonder if that is one of the first rear facing camera's that where installed as a field modification located just behind the rear entrance ladder.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2036908989909690/user/100002417876934
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2036908989909690/user/100002417876934
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- #347
Looking more closely at the picture above while zooming in on what I think is a early mounting camera mount I spotted this. To me it looks like a set of doors possibly the Pappy Gunn long range modification. I have been looking for this modification for a while. The arrows pointing to possible grooves and the circle how big the area for the doors roughly.
Thoughts?
IMHO this is the fairing over the opening for the belly turret omitted by all "commercial strafer" modifications. I'm not sure about the grooves - maybe these are only marks?
We usually think this opening was covered with a round piece of metal but this was not the only way of doing it.
As for the camera: there was a standard camera installation exactly in this area on the C/D models. It was a vertical one. This could be one of the modifications for a "rear view" camera. I think the piece we see is some kind of optical device (periscope) with angled mirror(s).
I have a couple of nice photos of a camera mounted on later B-25H from the 38-th BG. (AFAIR
). I'll post them here for comparison.Cheers!
- Thread starter
- #349
IMHO this is the fairing over the opening for the belly turret omitted by all "commercial strafer" modifications. I'm not sure about the grooves - maybe these are only marks?
We usually think this opening was covered with a round piece of metal but this was not the only way of doing it.
As for the camera: there was a standard camera installation exactly in this area on the C/D models. It was a vertical one. This could be one of the modifications for a "rear view" camera. I think the piece we see is some kind of optical device (periscope) with angled mirror(s).
I have a couple of nice photos of a camera mounted on later B-25H from the 38-th BG. (AFAIR
Cheers!
It could be either, I have found many documents and crew books that mention this tank installed in the early years of the war. really wish I could find it being installed or the drop tank doors open but so far this is the best I have found but will keep looking. Looking forward to your pictures of the 38th bomb group camera mountings.
Many thanks in advance.
I completely agree with you. Tried to find a photo (I was sure I have somewhere) with this portion of the belly, showing the fairing. Unfortunately either Her Majesty Dementia got me at the end or I need much more time, but I didn't find anything. Probably my personal B-25 archive is not in perfect form as well, after moving some of the photos from folder to folder.
Fingers crossed I have the camera photos under "38-th BG" and not under "Modifications","B-25H" or especially not in the "Miscellaneous - to be re-ordered" folder
. Since years I developed a phobia to go in there....I'll be back...
- Thread starter
- #351
I completely agree with you. Tried to find a photo (I was sure I have somewhere) with this portion of the belly, showing the fairing. Unfortunately either Her Majesty Dementia got me at the end or I need much more time, but I didn't find anything. Probably my personal B-25 archive is not in perfect form as well, after moving some of the photos from folder to folder.
Fingers crossed I have the camera photos under "38-th BG" and not under "Modifications","B-25H" or especially not in the "Miscellaneous - to be re-ordered" folder
I'll be back...
No biggie and take your time. I just cant believe how much of our history is lost or missing just on this one aircraft. I hate to see how much is lost forever on any aircraft of WWII.
All the best
Paul
O.K., I found everything (one of my rare lucky moments) not where expected, but still existing.
2 photos with cameras (please, check post #346 above). The first a/c is the famous Dirty Dora, a B-25C (no additional block number) from the 499-th BS., 345-th BG. I believe this is absolutely the same mod as in Paul's (Micdrow) photo.
The second photo is a clip from a bigger one, showing a B-25D-15 from the 501-st BS., 345-th BG. over Cape Gloucester airstrip. The fairing over the camera appears bigger and I believe it's from a slightly different type.
And here is the photo I tried to find before - I have already posted it earlier (in this thread or elsewhere) and the B-25s are not H-s but modified G-s (my favourites!). The 3 "Mitchell"s are from the 822-nd BS., 38-th BG. The fairing over the camera is from the bigger type:
More details - in my next post.
Cheers!
2 photos with cameras (please, check post #346 above). The first a/c is the famous Dirty Dora, a B-25C (no additional block number) from the 499-th BS., 345-th BG. I believe this is absolutely the same mod as in Paul's (Micdrow) photo.
The second photo is a clip from a bigger one, showing a B-25D-15 from the 501-st BS., 345-th BG. over Cape Gloucester airstrip. The fairing over the camera appears bigger and I believe it's from a slightly different type.
And here is the photo I tried to find before - I have already posted it earlier (in this thread or elsewhere) and the B-25s are not H-s but modified G-s (my favourites!). The 3 "Mitchell"s are from the 822-nd BS., 38-th BG. The fairing over the camera is from the bigger type:
More details - in my next post.
Cheers!
As mentioned in my previous post # 348, here are some photos of a field-installed camera(s) on B-25 "Mitchells" in the SWPA, not H-models as wrongly stated before but some of the modifications, widely used in the theater.
I haven't seen these photos published in a book or in an article. They all are from Fold3, but I'm not sure if it's possible to see them there without having an account (paid). As for the copyrights (I saw some of the latest discussions in the forum), these are official war photographs, thus property of the Government of the USA and do not need any explicit permissions to be used. They are from the AFHRA photo collection.
Cheers!
I haven't seen these photos published in a book or in an article. They all are from Fold3, but I'm not sure if it's possible to see them there without having an account (paid). As for the copyrights (I saw some of the latest discussions in the forum), these are official war photographs, thus property of the Government of the USA and do not need any explicit permissions to be used. They are from the AFHRA photo collection.
Cheers!
- Thread starter
- #354
Great stuff, as far as fold3 goes pictures are free to download. I have an account with them but not a paided account. The MARC stuff you need a paid account. I need more hours in the day so I can do more research and my notes are getting longer and longer. I need to sit down and organize them.
Thanks Paul
33k in the air
Staff Sergeant
- 1,344
- Jan 31, 2021
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but the following websites have mission loadout data for B-25 missions in the Pacific theater:
345th Bomb Group Mission Reports
345th Bomb Group - Squadron Mission Reports and Maps
345th Bomb Group Mission Reports
345th Bomb Group - Squadron Mission Reports and Maps
- Thread starter
- #356
An interesting article about B-25's armament and capabilities plus some guessing around the famous Tokyo Raid. The most interesting part: it was published in August 1942!
It's amusing (from our perspective) to read how the idea that the bombers came over the sea was considered impossible (or at least improbable) in 1942. Maybe on purpose.
Of course there are no photos of the actual raid or its preparation (still secret information at that time) and the illustration is of an early NA-62/B-25. The poster on the front page shows a hybrid of a B-25B with a top turret (the actual "Doolitle Raider") and a B-25A with a tail gun. The drawings are of a B-25/B-25A. The crew and armament description is of a B-25A even if the author pretends to know the differences between the B-25 versions. Still, it's a very good reading for all "Mitchell"-fans.
Enjoy!
P.S. I clipped the article from all 4-5 pages in the magazine without further formatting, thus the differences in the page sizes.
The above issue (and many more) are free to download from this collection: RC Bookcase - Download Free Vintage Model Airplane Magazines, Catalogs, Books, Tutorials.
!It's amusing (from our perspective) to read how the idea that the bombers came over the sea was considered impossible (or at least improbable) in 1942. Maybe on purpose
.Of course there are no photos of the actual raid or its preparation (still secret information at that time) and the illustration is of an early NA-62/B-25. The poster on the front page shows a hybrid of a B-25B with a top turret (the actual "Doolitle Raider") and a B-25A with a tail gun. The drawings are of a B-25/B-25A. The crew and armament description is of a B-25A even if the author pretends to know the differences between the B-25 versions. Still, it's a very good reading for all "Mitchell"-fans
.Enjoy!
P.S. I clipped the article from all 4-5 pages in the magazine without further formatting, thus the differences in the page sizes.
The above issue (and many more) are free to download from this collection: RC Bookcase - Download Free Vintage Model Airplane Magazines, Catalogs, Books, Tutorials.
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