B-25 weapons thread

[Darthtabby]

Did the configuration of the bomb bay change much during the B-25's evolution? I've seen load configuration charts for the B-25H, but I'm wondering about the other models, particularly the early ones like the B and C.

 

[Micdrow]

Did the configuration of the bomb bay change much during the B-25's evolution? I've seen load configuration charts for the B-25H, but I'm wondering about the other models, particularly the early ones like the B and C.

As far as I know the bomb bay size itself didn't change much but the bomb loads themselves changed. The manual only shows some of the load outs but not all off the load outs. Field modifications to add as many bombs as possible especially for fragmentation bombs came into play and you can find other configurations with the addition of different drop tanks inside the bomb bay and then you add all the different types of fixed and not fixed drop tanks added into the bomb bay to increase range down sized the bomb loads. If you go through the whole thread you will find some of these configurations. Also there is a pdf of the B-25J Mitchell weapons lay out.

Below is a shot from the RAAF C & D erection and maintenance manual. As the Mitchells got bigger engines due to weight increase and such the speed decreased slightly but the weapons up grades including the nose strafer configuration increased in weight.

It gets very confusing at times especially when it comes to modifications.

 

[fubar57]

Great shots Paul

 

[Micdrow]

A long time back in thread 130 I posted what looked to be an all black B-25. After some research this is a PBJ Mitchell used by the Marine Corps and equiped with the HVAR rocket system or high velocity aircraft rockets. They where used for night heckling which ment that they flew at night with orders to find and destory Japanese ships in the Pacific.

Like all squadrons colors seem to very. Being colored blind does not help me on top of black and white pictures but this one seems to be either painted black or mid night blue according to some PBJ squadrons sources.

Also this one is equiped with the GCA system or Ground Controlled Approach radar to aid in landing in bad weather or on night landings. The H antenna is located under the cockpit window.

Note also on the co-pilot wing that the radar pod is located on the wing instead of the nose.

Some sources claim that because they flew at night most of the machine guns where removed which seems to be the case with this one which looks to show that even the glass nose was painted. Tail guns where usually still installed in case of night fighter attacks.

If any one knows more I would love to hear more about it.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Micdrow]

Armor layout and skin thickness for a B-25H

 

[Micdrow]

Sheet two for B-25H

 

[Micdrow]

Some of the different models of the B-25 Mitchell

 

[Wurger]

 

[Greg Boeser]

No armor for the tail position?

 

[Micdrow]

No armor for the tail position?

I believe the ones above show outer skin only. Where this one shows armor inside and out.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Snautzer01]

Found this doing a reverse image search on Yves photo. Google calls the images "B-25G Tee Kay". Italeri does a 1:48 B-25G kit and one of the decal options is for Tee Kay.

View attachment 597704
View attachment 597705
​

Image isn't clear enough to get the serial number unfortunately

Edit: s/n is 265217

*PHOTO* 38th BG B-25 Mitchell Bomber "TEE-KAY" in Combat ~ Excellent | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* 38th BG B-25 Mitchell Bomber "TEE-KAY" in Combat ~ Excellent at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Wurger]

 

[Micdrow]

Found this picture on the web some months ago. Looks like a crude modification for a tail stinger. Possibly a 30 cal mount.

View attachment 537897View attachment 537898

So currently reading the book Eagles, Bulldogs & Tigers History of the 22nd bomb squadron in China-Burma-India it talks about the tail gun mounted in the rear cone that I started in thread 191. Says the following by Ricard C. Babb

In late 1942 or early 1943, A B-25 of the 11th Bomb squadron from Kweilin, China landed in Chakulia. While servicing the aircraft we noticed a 30 caliber machine gun had been installed in the tail section and the firing was controlled by the pilot. The crew of the 11th dubbed this Rube Goldberg or "Wobble Gun". It was anchored on a loose mount giving it the ability to spray the area behind the tail section in all directions.

From same book Carlyle A Peek mentions the Wobble Gun on the B-25C's. The 30 caliber machine gun was bolted to the aluminum crawlway floor and the gun barrel had a 4 foot piece of pipe around the barrel, which stuck out the small tail cone. The rear turret gunner had a rope he could pull to surprise any zero that came up in this area.

 

[CATCH 22]

So off and on I have been researching the Soviet version of the B-25D or known to the Soviets as the B-25DP. I did find some things interesting as they where equipped with the NKPB-7 bomb sight of which I am still looking for pictures.

Interesting enough from the book Lend-Lease and Soviet Aviation in the Second World War by Vladimir Kotelnikov they found they criticized the lower turret as well due to jamming when extended abruptly and limited field of view and replaced these with a pair of machine guns in the side mounts.

So far have not found any pictures of this but it is interesting. They also thought that the crew was too large and moved the equipment for the navigation to the nose of the aircraft with the bombardier doubling as navigator. They also did multiple changes with fuel tanks in the bomb bay. So far on all of the above changes I have not found any pictures but still am looking. What makes this even harder is that damaged US B-25's that landed in Russia where repaired and in-turned in Russia that where modified by US squadrons and used by the Soviets.

Hi Paul,
the Soviets called B-25DP (B-25ДП) the D-models from the two latest B-25D blocks: -30 and -35 only:

Those "hybrids" had the belly turret already removed and the side guns (the non-staggered) and the single tail gun factory installed. Check this article in Russian. It's about the tests of a B-25DP in the USSR. I believe there is a way to Google-translate this page or maybe there is an English version of it already.
On one of the photos you can see the bomb sight - I believe this is the Soviet model you mention above, since no Norden-bomb sights were given to the Russians. It could be the D-8 bomb sight though (this was the one installed on B-25 as per Russian sources)
Kotelnikov wrote a single book(let) about the B-25 in the USSR (I have a hard copy), but only a couple of pages are about the Soviet use. Print is awful, I think there might be a pdf-copy on the net.
You can find some interesting photos of B-25s in the USSR and some of the Soviet modifications (e.g. bombs) here:

747 ап дд-22 гв. ап дд часть 2, аэродромная

в центре - к-н Мойсеев На заднем плане один из последних Ер-2 полка слева инженер по вооружению Пивоваров с-на Стрыжак в центре к-н Дремин

zaika70.livejournal.com

All a/cs are early models (C, D) with belly turrets. On one of them (after resizing, zooming in and out) there might be a side gun visible, coming out of one of the observations windows behind the wing - check this:

If this is what we think, it will be the first time ever I see a modification like this.
BTW for many years I was looking for a photo of a Soviet B-25G; AFAIK only 4 have been delivered, all of which went to the Navy as transports.
At the end I found one (don't remember where, possibly from a Russian site) and here it is:

Maybe there is a better one somewhere? Who knows....
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Very cool Yves and I updated my notes, I have noted in there as well that the B-25C was referred to as the B-25S but that's it if you know anything more. I will have to study your Russian website in more detail this weekend. I have no plans other than to update my notes on the B-25 as they sorely need updating before I forget what LOL.

Awesome find on the waste gun modification. Sure looks like a modification. As far as the G model goes I have the same picture you posted above.

Below I hope is a picture you have not seen before. It came from the book Mitchell Masterpieces by Wim Ni Jenhuis. It's the only picture I have seen so far of a Soviet Mitchell with adjustable air intakes for the the engines which where only used in cold weather from what I have read and removed once weather warmed up.

Another thing I found interesting was that the Soviets did not like that they did not have fire preventing neutral gases. Crews considered this to be unacceptable and therefore with the assistance of the design burau of NKAP Plant No. 156 developed a system to vent spent engine exhaust gases into the fuel cells. The exhaust gas would pass through filters (a set of serrated copper rings) and vented under pressure into the fuel system to reduce fire danger. It was ordered that all aircraft have the Auxiliary external wing tanks and internal bomb bay fuel tanks equipped with the exhaust gas protection feature. Later on, Plant No. 156 produced one time use fiber (specially compressed cardboard) 220-gallon wing tanks. After their fuel was expended, they were dropped. The mounting of the auxiliary fuel cells permitted the duration of the flight to extend to 12 hours.

All the best

Paul

 

[Donivanp]

Lots of great info here.

 

[Wurger]

 

[CATCH 22]

Below I hope is a picture you have not seen before. It came from the book Mitchell Masterpieces by Wim Ni Jenhuis. It's the only picture I have seen so far of a Soviet Mitchell with adjustable air intakes for the the engines which where only used in cold weather from what I have read and removed once weather warmed up.

Hi Paul,
Yep, you did surprise me with the above photo! I haven't seen it before. Coincidentally when downloading photos yesterday I read in one of the Russian articles that this particular modification was done at Plant No.81, but no photo was available. Those adjustable "louvres" look pretty much like the ones seen on Soviet made Catalinas (called GST) - see here. But they are not the same and look nicer. For some reason (maybe because of the red stars on the insides of the rudders, no nose guns etc.) I was thinking this is the same a/c which was tested by the Soviets and designated B-25S:

Maybe it's a different one though.
The explanation for the B-25S is very simple: the letter C is the Cyrillic letter for S. So somebody just "translated" it in the documents. Later on they didn't do the same with the D, G and J- models (AFAIK).
Cheers!