B-25 weapons thread

Donivanp · Jul 27, 2021

Yard gnome

GrauGeist · Jul 27, 2021

Good to see the restoration moving forward, thanks for sharing, Paul!

And I'm not jealous that you're at Air Venture. Not one bit. Nope.

Ok, I'm lying...

Micdrow · Jul 27, 2021

GrauGeist said:
Good to see the restoration moving forward, thanks for sharing, Paul!

And I'm not jealous that you're at Air Venture. Not one bit. Nope.

Ok, I'm lying...

Thanks, back tomorrow, in heaven, 5 B-25's so far this year. Not the most I have seen out there this year but one I had not seen before showed up.

SaparotRob · Jul 27, 2021

What a great way to spend some time. Good to see good news.

CATCH 22 · Jul 28, 2021

Great info, Paul!
I remember reading about the nose - it's not from the original a/c, neither is it from the second B-25J from Alaska they are using for parts (a Soviet lend-lease a/c). See more information here.
There is an interesting detail too: the nose has a window in the floor (to the right of the Norden):

This type of glazing has been used in early "Mitchells" and was terminated at some point in the later J- models. I believe the original Sandbar Mitchell (the fire bomber) B-25J-25-NC s/n 44-30733 didn't have it.

The a/c they want to honor - 8Z from the 488-th BS./340-th BG. was an early B-25J-1-NC s/n 43-27537. As per a photo I have of a B-25J-1-NC, s/n 43-4030 (later modified as gen. Eisenhower's personal transport) block-1 still had this window.

Paul, can you ask some of the guys (if you can "catch" one) did they know about it or is it just a (lucky) coincidence?

P.S. I remembered something: one of the original a/cs from the 340-th BG., restored and flying today is the B-25J-1-NC "Briefing Time". It's a Block-1 J and has the floor window:

Cheers!

Micdrow · Jul 29, 2021

CATCH 22 said:
Great info, Paul!
I remember reading about the nose - it's not from the original a/c, neither is it from the second B-25J from Alaska they are using for parts (a Soviet lend-lease a/c). See more information here.
There is an interesting detail too: the nose has a window in the floor (to the right of the Norden):
View attachment 634259
This type of glazing has been used in early "Mitchells" and was terminated at some point in the later J- models. I believe the original Sandbar Mitchell (the fire bomber) B-25J-25-NC s/n 44-30733 didn't have it.
View attachment 634260
The a/c they want to honor - 8Z from the 488-th BS./340-th BG. was an early B-25J-1-NC s/n 43-27537. As per a photo I have of a B-25J-1-NC, s/n 43-4030 (later modified as gen. Eisenhower's personal transport) block-1 still had this window.

Paul, can you ask some of the guys (if you can "catch" one) did they know about it or is it just a (lucky) coincidence?

P.S. I remembered something: one of the original a/cs from the 340-th BG., restored and flying today is the B-25J-1-NC "Briefing Time". It's a Block-1 J and has the floor window:
View attachment 634286

CATCH 22 said:
Cheers!

Yves, I've got your question. We where supposed to head out there today but we got hit last night with sever storms. Humidity went up to 88 percent and another one above 80 degree's so my son and I decided to stay home and recoup for a day. We will be back out there tomorrow and will see if I can get an answer to your question. I did talk with one of people from the B-25 Devil Dog as I was mainly looking at how the side guns where routed for ammunition. I have seen drawings of it but no pictures. Unfortunately Devil Dog is completely stripped down on the inside. No old radio room, no restored tail and such. Even the nose is empty as far as machine guns and ammo. The did this for range for the airshow and cut down on weight. The nose is actually where they are carrying there T-shirts that they sell. Miss Mitchell on the other hand has been trying to get back to there original configuration. The guy I talked to said they had spent over 5,000 dollars restoring the radio room compartment. They where not allowing people inside other than to look through the access doors. I have some pictures will get them posted, maybe today. Heading back to bed LOL. We chose to stay home at the last minute today.

All the best

Paul

special ed · Jul 29, 2021

It's 80F and 83% humidity in south Louisiana. I thought yankees were tough.

CATCH 22 · Jul 29, 2021

Paul, thank you very much for the details. It's stormy everywhere - we had hail yesterday

!
There are several of the restored "Mitchells" with this type of window in the floor and I suspect that those are noses manufactured originally and stored after the war (as in the case with the "Sandbank Mitchell's" new one). It is possible though that the original B-25s, represented by the restorations, didn't have the window. I got interested some time ago reading in a different forum about this discrepancy (or maybe just difference) and couldn't find any information when exactly did NAA terminate the installation of the bombardier's window in the floor and why.
Stay save!
Cheers!

Micdrow · Jul 31, 2021

Morning Yves, Well I did get to talk with some of the people on the Sand Bar Mitchell yesterday. I also tried taking a picture for better few of the window. They are restoring this Mitchell to an early J model and the window was put in on purpose. In actuality it sounds like they are already planning on more changes to the nose. The Norton Bomb site in the picture is going to be changed out to an earlier model of the same site. They are rebuilding the box layout as well to make it period correct for the early J models. Also I have included another picture of the nose heater. which normally you don't get to see. They are trying to make it completely period correct when done. They are hoping to have it flying by 2025 and so far are on track. Note also if you follow the hose from the heater you can see a open hose fitting. That hose fitting is supposed to go to the Norton bomb site to keep the sight from fogging up.

Hope that helps

Paul

CATCH 22 · Jul 31, 2021

Thanks Paul! Great stuff (I believe not only for you and me but for all Mitchell-aficionados

).
I've never seen that window in such detail before! So it's not a lucky coincidence having the correct nose for an early J-model and the guys really do a diligent job with the restoration. Kudos for them!
I checked your photos in the other thread (Oshkosh 2021) as well. Some of them bring memories, but many of the a/cs are new for me. You've done GREAT JOB!
Cheers!

Micdrow · Aug 1, 2021

Thanks Yves,

Below is a series of pictures for the recon K-24 camera behind the bomb bay. You can see the window on the B-25 Mitchell Betty's Dream, the other pictures below I believe are of Miss Mitchell of both the outside and inside of the aircraft. Of course the last picture is from the a B-25J manual. I took these this past week at Air Venture 2021.

Micdrow · Aug 15, 2021

So off and on I have been researching the Soviet version of the B-25D or known to the Soviets as the B-25DP. I did find some things interesting as they where equipped with the NKPB-7 bomb sight of which I am still looking for pictures.

Interesting enough from the book Lend-Lease and Soviet Aviation in the Second World War by Vladimir Kotelnikov they found they criticized the lower turret as well due to jamming when extended abruptly and limited field of view and replaced these with a pair of machine guns in the side mounts.

So far have not found any pictures of this but it is interesting. They also thought that the crew was too large and moved the equipment for the navigation to the nose of the aircraft with the bombardier doubling as navigator. They also did multiple changes with fuel tanks in the bomb bay. So far on all of the above changes I have not found any pictures but still am looking. What makes this even harder is that damaged US B-25's that landed in Russia where repaired and in-turned in Russia that where modified by US squadrons and used by the Soviets.

Micdrow · Aug 20, 2021

So while reading the book Jayhawk, Love, Loss, Liberation and Terror over the Pacific by Jay A Stout: that George mentioned remembering dropping supplies to Australian troops on the ground on the interior of New Guinea. According to him they bundled the supplies in large canvas sacks attached with parachutes that where attached to shackles in the bomb bay and that there was a lanyard much like a ripcord that ran from the parachute to where it was tied off in the bomb bay. When the package fell away the lanyard extended to a certain point until it deployed the parachute. The packages where released just like a bomb using the bomb release button on the control yoke.

I was wondering if anyone had seen pictures of these installed in the bomb bay or pictures of the bags being dropped.

Many thanks in advance if you can help out.